"How about incorporating some of the things that you liked about yourself, when with OW, and applying them to your W?" Not a half bad idea. I had been wondering about how I could get her to see what it is the OW provided for me without making it too obvious where it came from. I already do joke around with her, and "wink" at her (in a number of different ways). Interesting conversations is a bit more difficult because she doesn't seem to respond to anything except talk about babies these days.
I never thought I could turn W into OW, but I did think that some of the good qualities of OW that are considered to be universally good would be appropriate to suggest. I guess though when there is emotional baggage attached to an idea, no matter how good in principle, you do have to be more careful.
There seems to be a fine line between "over-committing" to a relationship (just ignoring things that should kill the relationship for the sake of preserving it at all costs) and the proper amount of commitment. I don't think anyone would suggest that someone should be committed no matter what, even the most die-hard Biblical literalists believe in divorce for certain reasons. I heard someone say that everyone should catalog their "deal breakers." I guess what I'm trying to ask is how do you balance the attitude that I am "100% committed", but at the same time be honest with yourself that in some situations it is better to separate. On a side note, I am committed to my marriage. I still have lingering feelings for OW for sure, I will for awhile. But I 100% approach my wife with the attitude that I want to be with her for the rest of my life and I want it to be a marriage where we BOTH are happy, not just me. Maybe in wearing my heart on my sleeve, the W picks up subtle clues that say I am thinking about OW and she interprets them as me silently wanting a reason to leave. That is not the case. I did basically say what Cobra suggested, but maybe not as strongly. If a good opportunity arises, I will say it more strongly.
I am reasonably confident based on OW comments and from the mutual friend that this was the first time for her too. I don't look down on her for what happened, she was caught up in it as much as I was. I heard from mutual friend that she had to go home from work one day because she was so sick from the guilt she felt. I also heard from mutual friend that she was making statements like "I can never make this up to my husband" which sounds wrong-headed to me, but there is nothing I can do about it.
Is my wife loyal? You are right in that she is loyal in terms of not looking elsewhere for EC or S. There is also loyalty within the confines of the marriage itself, of keeping promises to each other such as the promise of sex later that evening, or the promise to be more affectionate, etc. My betrayal is worse than hers, but she has betrayed my trust in a number of ways over the years.
"I wish I had been more sensitive to his daily struggles and able to see that there are two people in this marriage, not just me, and that timing is an important element to all of this." You are right of course. I make an effort to be more sensitive and aware of her feelings in the future. I will do my absolute best to lay off for a few weeks.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"So, you're a southern boy with a southern belle W" Actually I am a military brat, which I'm sure has something to do with my impatience and difficulty making long-term relationships work (I basically had none outside my immediate family growing up).
My education is definitely an anomaly in my family. I was the first to get a B.S. (only my older brother has duplicated that, and neither of my parent had much post-HS education), I am the only one so far to get an M.S. or a Ph.D.
I can best explain how my dad was by example. In my junior high, high school years, he intentionally moved us out to live 1 hour away from school, and refused to let me get a drivers license, thus effectively shutting me off from any real friendship. He refused to let me go to prom, saying it was "a bunch of drunk teenagers getting drunker." Oddly enough he used to get drunk on occasion. He used to beat the absolute crap out of me for such things as laughing out loud at night (when he wanted quiet in the house). He thought TV, radio, etc. were the root of evil in the world. I grew up only on "classical" music. I remember him once beating the crap out of me when I came home one day with the top button of my polo shirt unbuttoned. He said doing that meant I was looking for sex. My mom usually tried to help some, by sneaking us out of the house sometimes to see friends. But she could turn on us in an instant and lay the blame on us if would save her own skin. I remember getting beaten till I was black and blue all up and down my leg when I came home one time with 6 A's and 1 B (the B stood for beating I guess). Childhood really sucked.
Church is for the most part pretty much BS in my opinion, but there are somereally good people that you can learn a lot from there. I tend to focus on those people and just ignore all the rest of the crap. I would rather go to a much more "charismatic" church than we go to. Seems more real to me than just sitting around the in pews for an hour then quietly going home.
Well like Ludacris says, men want a "lady on the street but a freak in the bed." They teach 'em how to be a lady in the South but mostly neglect the bedroom stuff. The ones that explore on their own usually get pregnant at an early age and have to deal with the "slut" label the rest of their life. It is amazing to see a bunch of old church ladies sitting around basically calling a young girl a slut if she is pregnant out of wedlock. So much for "love your neighbor", eh?
My family is elsewhere, scattered all over the place really. The ILs in general like me, but it is clear I am an outsider due to my level of education and my interests. You might say they like to talk more about "events" (who won the last football game and what movies are good) while I like to talk about ideas (creatonism versus evolution (that one goes over well in the deep south ), etc.) They do NOT know about the EA and if I can help it they won't. I am not kidding about the severity of the retribution I would face. Basically, pretty much everyone in the county would hate me. I can think of no quicker way to break up my marriage, because I could not live in a place where everyone hated me, and I don't think the W wants to move.
Still Mr. Cool, but I think mine are still more on the Play-do side rather than being brass.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"Globule, does she know the details to the point of the OW being the one to end it? If not, I would play that down." Yes, she knows it. I pretty much confessed to all the important details, just leaving out some specifics on the advice of the C who said that the W didn't need concrete images in her head the rest of her life. Was that bad advice?
You have to remember that OW really didn't break it off either. Her husband found out and forced her. My W does not know that detail. I didn't want her to worry about what OW's husband might do. That is another reason for keeping tabs through the mutual friend. I might get some advance warning if he decides to go ballistic. I'm guessing that if he hasn't after a month, he probably won't.
I tried to make up for not being the one to break it off by confessing. I could have probably never said anything to the W and she would only have had suspicions that might have died off after awhile. Who knows? Of course I am not making myself out to be a saint by confessing. It was partially out of a sense of guilt, and partially out of a deep depression.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Quote: ZBube, how would I translate "lily pearl" into German?
It's not much of a translation. Lily is spelled "Lilie" and pronounced exactly the same as it is in English. Pearl is "Perle". The ending "e" is pronounced "uh" just like in Porsche, so Perle is pronounced perl-uh. Put it all together and it's exactly the same as in English, but with "uh" stuck onto the end.
Incidentally, both Lilie and Perle are feminine nouns.
"The other part was to show that though Cobras thoughts make sense they are not a sure thing." I am getting some very different perspectives here from different people. Sometimes it is confusing, but mostly it is helpful
" hope you work through this emotion I do not feel it is benifical for your mental health IMO." Worked through the suicide feelings, but still feel disgust at myself for thinking that way. It will pass. You have to remember, the only person who I could really talk to throughout all of this awakening experience was OW. So when that ended, I was pretty lost.
"And that your grief may have seemed selfish to her when at that moment she should have been allowed to be the one grieving. And no instead of being angry about what you had done she is holding on to just that." An interesting possibility that maybe we can explore in the C sessions. I was definitely a weird situation for my W, I'm sure.
"In my case it is not just the loss of the person but the support that they have given me throughout this life time that I miss." I feel somewhat the same way, but of course my EA was much shorter. She really gave me a lot of emotional support and made me feel good about myself like I never have before, and may never again.
"Six years from now if I need them they will be there for me. It is how it has always been between us." That's kinda what has me lingering a bit. I am waiting to see how things turn out with her husband, not so I can jump into a relationship with her if it goes sour, but I would like to be able to help her like she helped me. I think she feels the same way about me if things go sour in my marriage. I know it is probably a dumb thing to hold onto, but it is hard to let go.
"I am filled with gratitued not guilt." I am filled with both. The pain I inflicted upon my wife and her husband give me great guilt. But I also feel an incredible amount of gratitude to her for the caring that she showed me and the awakening to my true self that she led me too.
I have no idea if my W seems my emotional self as being manly or not. She has never said one way or the other.
Baby pooh is something I will not miss at all. Unfortunately, the twins are regressing a bit with the newborn giving them a bad example of how to get attention (by crying all the time). Fun times for sure.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Quote: ZBube, how would I translate "lily pearl" into German?
It's not much of a translation. Lily is spelled "Lilie" and pronounced exactly the same as it is in English. Pearl is "Perle". The ending "e" is pronounced "uh" just like in Porsche, so Perle is pronounced perl-uh. Put it all together and it's exactly the same as in English, but with "uh" stuck onto the end.
Incidentally, both Lilie and Perle are feminine nouns.
Z-Bube
Yep. But incidentally, Lilie also has a phonetic "uh" in it - as in Lili-uh.
'Course, since this is German, we could always create a compound noun: Lilienperle, the "perl of the lilies".
Quote: You have to remember that OW really didn't break it off either. Her husband found out and forced her. My W does not know that detail. I didn't want her to worry about what OW's husband might do. That is another reason for keeping tabs through the mutual friend. I might get some advance warning if he decides to go ballistic. I'm guessing that if he hasn't after a month, he probably won't.
I call bull$hit.
You're trying to go by the methadone treatment for affairs.
You are continuing to get a "fix" or "buzz" by focusing on, thinking about, and talking about the office paramour with the mutual friend. It's not as good as the pure heroin of her presence and interaction, but it vicariously keeps the thrill and vibe going for you.
And there's something just a little self-deceptive and self-serving at justifying doing so in the guise of watching out for what the husband might do because you're concerned for your wife.
Secondly, stop minimizing what she did by breaking it off with you. She wasn't "forced" by her husband. He gave her a boundary as in "continue the relationship with Glob and I will bow out of the marriage." That's not force, that's choice. She chose him over you. Chose her marriage over a dalliance with you. The reality is, until total avoidance is achieved and time has gone by, the two of you are very vulnerable to picking right back up where it started, with an even stronger compulsion to take it further.
Energy expending toward the other woman, is energy stolen from your wife, your children and your marriage.
), etc.) They do NOT know about the EA and if I can help it they won't. I am not kidding about the severity of the retribution I would face. Basically, pretty much everyone in the county would hate me. I can think of no quicker way to break up my marriage, because I could not live in a place where everyone hated me, and I don't think the W wants to move.
