I’ve decided to start my own thread on this dog issue rather than hijacking Karen’s. In that thread, I said
Quote: I can draw the line in the sand about taking in any more animals, but when she crosses it, I can’t throw the animal out into the cold. So what has developed is a pattern where I draw a boundary with no consequences, she ignores it, and I redraw the boundary. I’m not willing to toss the animals out and I’m not willing to leave her over them.
This issue has been discussed here before too. What consequences can I enforce? What power do I have when W knows that I won’t leave her? As long as I keep paying the bills, she doesn’t need me for anything. She obviously gets what she needs from the dogs and cats. And she has her animal rescue cohorts to continually reinforce her obsession and assure her that it’s both moral and normal. They had a lady call them about accepting an owner surrender cat because she was getting married and her fiancée was allergic to cats. I heard the convo and they actually told her, “I would get rid of the fiancée.” W agreed and has retold that story several times.
ZB wrote Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even now, I don’t know what consequences I would be willing to enforce. I can draw the line in the sand about taking in any more animals, but when she crosses it, I can’t throw the animal out into the cold.
It seems to me that the underlying issue isn't the number of animals... it's the fact that whether there are two dogs or two hundred dogs, she always places you at the end of the list. If you had animals running all over the house, but the bedroom was off limits to them and that bedroom was a sanctuary of love and intimacy where you two retreated at the end of every day to reconnect emotionally and physically, the animals would NOT be a problem. You would see her as a very loving and compassionate person whose love overflowed to all nature. But what you have is someone who is stingy with EC to you and lavishes all her love on animals INSTEAD of you. THAT hurts.
It also seems to me that drawing a line in the sand about the animals is not the way to go. The line in the sand should be drawn regarding the way she relates to you. If she's like my friend, delivering any ultimatum about the animals will cause her to choose them over any human being. You might have more success in addressing only your R with each other and leaving the animals out of it. _____________
If it weren't the animals, it would be shopping (like Lou's BB), or working all the time, or being overly involved with the children or grandchildren to the exclusion of you.
Remind me again...why you won't leave. I know you've posted it before, I've simply forgotten...kids? Religion? Simply won't?
Refresh my memory on this also...have you ever asked her for just some time to spend with her alone (non-animal related...you can ensure this, you don't have to make an issue of it.)?
You’re partially right. You are absolutely right that the big issue is not the number of animals. Actually, the number of animals comes in third on the list. The list of animal related problems anyway.
The number one issue is that I have always felt that I was below the animals on her priority list. This is the big one and the one that fuels the majority of my resentment. It’s also the one that causes me the most pain. It’s very difficult to accept that my W places more value on her pets than she does on her H. It’s much like living with an unrepentant alcoholic: given the choice between their S and the booze, they choose the booze. That just hurts.
Number two is what I perceive as a lack of respect. More than once I have specifically told W, “No more dogs!!!” I’ve even couched it in dog-welfare terms in the hopes that she might see the light. I’ve tried to tell her that it’s for the dogs’ own benefit since the sheer number of them prevents any of them from getting much of her attention. But even when she agrees with me, or pretends to anyway, she keeps bringing in more of them. We’ve even had discussions about specific dogs where she’s gone directly against what I said. She was looking at a litter of Dalmatian puppies and asking me about which one to get. I said, “NONE” and made it very clear that I did not want to get any more dogs. So she went back that afternoon and bought one. A total lack of respect or concern for my opinion.
The third issue is the number of animals. In truth, it’s only an issue inasmuch as the increasing numbers take up increasing amounts of time and resources. I’m probably just fooling myself, but I have this idea that if there were less animals, W would spend less time with them and more with me. I have this idea that it would make things better. In the cold, hard light of day, when I put that down in black and white, I know it’s just a fantasy. She may have more time for me, but I would still be below the animals in her list of priorities. It would still suck to be in second place – at best.
Well I can see what you were saying from your response that the suggestion I threw out there for consideration as to a possible why was not even close. Though I have nothing else to offer here I did want to say. I think it is great the way you have expanded your family. I remembered you stating your youngest was adopted but I did not know about your oldest. You clearly have a big heart.
ZB, this is one of those places where the comparison with alcohol is a good one. It does indeed hurt to know that your partner, given a choice between you and a six-pack, would choose the six-pack. And asking them NOT to drink the booze is just an exercise in futility. Until they decide not to do it, you're just wasting your time.
You might consider attending alanon just for the peace it gives to you hear how other people deal with the issues of living with someone who places them low on the priority list. Alanon is all about GAL, especially spiritually. It's free and convenient, and you never have to say one word out loud.
Your W's sitch sounds very much like Lou's BB and her shopping.
Going out and getting the puppy after you specifically asked her not to-- wow! It does show a lack of respect, but in a backhanded way, it also shows how much she trusts you-- that you will not walk away or hurt her when she defies you. I've been in situations where I didn't defy my partner (and I never defied my parents, not even once) because I was afraid of them. Of course, flipside way of looking at that is that she really takes you for granted. Taking you for granted is preferable to walking on eggshells around you, but there should be a happy medium.
Bringing in more and more animals certainly does reduce the care that you're able to give each one. Kind of reminds me of Mia Farrow and all those children she adopted... she wound up not being able to keep an eye on all of them...
Quote: ZB- is there a sweet lady hiding inside your W? Why did you fall in love with her? What did you see in her back then?
You know, those are really, really hard questions. I’ve always believed that there is a sweet lady hiding inside somewhere. I’ve said on these very pages that I also think there’s a sensuous woman in there too. But both are hiding extremely well. You never know about things that a shrink says; they may just be looking for a response or trying to get you to think about something. But having said that, I heard our C tell W that she was, “a cruel, vicious, vindictive bitch”. W agreed with that assessment. And I have to admit that once you cross her, it’s very hard to get back into W’s good graces.
Why did I fall in love with her? What did I see in her? Those are hard ones. We had a lot in common as far as values, religious beliefs, political views, etc. We were both music majors, so we obviously had a lot of common interests and experiences there. She was kind hearted and generous. I also saw stability, which was something lacking in my life. My FOO wasn’t abnormal other than being military. At the time I got married, I had lived in eight states and three foreign countries. I had spent over have my life outside of the U.S. I graduated from my 13th school and was working on me second university. W spent her whole life living in one house and finished high school with the same kids and in the same building where she started the first grade. Permanence and stability were very appealing to me.
Part of it too, was that I was young and foolish. Remember, we were both teenagers when we got married. We also rushed into M. We met in September when the semester started. I knew her roommate. We started dating in mid October, got engaged on November 19th, and got married on December 20th. Right now, I can’t imagine my life without her, but I do sometimes wonder if we would have gotten married if we had known each other longer and better. But that kind of thinking isn’t productive. This December will be 30 years, so I guess we’re both here for the long haul.
Quote: Remind me again...why you won't leave. I know you've posted it before, I've simply forgotten...kids? Religion? Simply won't?
Refresh my memory on this also...have you ever asked her for just some time to spend with her alone (non-animal related...you can ensure this, you don't have to make an issue of it.)?
To the first question: D – all the above. Do you need me to expand upon that? I can if you want me to.
To the second, yes and no. I do try to get time together on our own, but animals always seem to intrude. Since she’s so obsessed, the animals are her primary subject for discussion. When we’re alone, the convos always seem to be her complaining about the kids or something to do with the animals or her rescue group. We went to Jamaica for our 25th anniversary and she went with me to a week long conference in Minneapolis last year, so some of the times I’m speaking of are really vacations alone. But she still obsesses about the animals. After the trip to Minneapolis, D(then)16 complained that when her mother called, all she did was ask how the animals were and if they were eating, and if they missed her, etc. She never asked the kids how they were doing.
Chrissy,
OK, I know this is kind of corny and really is a cliché, but I think I get more from the kids than I give. I love all three of them just as much as if they were all my own. I’m already dreading D20 finishing college and going back home to Moldova. It’s bad enough letting her go home in the summer. D17 is a senior and will be heading off to pharmacy school next fall too. Does empty nest syndrome apply to fathers too?
Lil,
I think W does take me for granted. Right now, I’m in too foul a mood to say more about that. I just agree that W almost never takes my feelings or desires into account. I’ll leave it at that.
I have a question for you and this is more for me then anything.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Right now, I can’t imagine my life without her, +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is it that you cannot imagine with out her. Is that based on comfort or love? Even with all the problems in my marriage it is hard to imagine what life would truly be like with out my H. But I don't know if it is love or just because he has been there for so long I am just use to him being there. Sorta like if I know I am sick in bed he will be there to cook dinner for the kids comfort. Would love to hear your take on this in your relationship.What it is you cannot imagine being without if you do not mind.
That's ok...I was just trying to refresh my memory, thanks. Ok...here's an approach I take with my H that usually works when he gets to talking about anything but us. "Hon, I know you find that stuff interesting and I do enjoy talking about that with you but there is so much about YOU I don't know....tell me something about yourself you've NEVER told me before. You know something from your past, something you've always wanted to do, something you never did but regret not trying...stuff like that." It usually works.
One VERY important thing to try to do though is to get her out of her normal environment. This is what works best with my H. If we are anywhere near a TV, he's paying attention to it not me, same with the computer. BUT, if we're taking a nice hot soak in the tub (which we do a bit more lately) or if just the radio is on to some soft music....or we're sitting on the porch enjoying a sunset....he's more likely to participate in a conversation like that.
I have to catch him away from his normal environment though...and sometimes that means. I say "Hon, lets go sit on the porch and enjoy the weather for a bit." or whatever...the key is, get her away from the computer, get her away from the phone, get her away from the dogs. You don't have to be obvious about it, just do something like take a drive...to enjoy the sunset.
And asking them NOT to drink the booze is just an exercise in futility. Until they decide not to do it, you're just wasting your time. 