HI Slowly, You're #1! I can't believe I havent posted for a week, have been so busy. actually I have a lot to post about but only a minute to do so....
I'll just start with tonight. I talked with H for a few minutes before taking S to class. We were talking about our respective days, and H was telling me about an emergency he had come in....and then he said he "had to call the devil about the meds....it took me a while to get it..."oh, you mean monster"...and he said yeah, and how she started to chit chat and he told her no, he didnt want to talk with her but had to call to get this info clarified...and had monster talk directly with the client instead of being the "go-between"...and that he hates haveing to talk to her, that he always communicates by email when at all possible, and that when he has to email, he emails her supervisor and cc's it to monster....
I'm kinda going by the book here, but I took this as a very positive sign, That he is openly and unsolicited sharing "unavoidable contacts" with me...According to "not just friends", all contact must stop, and all unavoidable contact must be openly shared with the spouse. H seems to be doing it....without me asking him to. I was just thinking today of how I might ask him for that....
I think things are "ok" with him as far as his suicide gesture 2 weeks ago tonight. I am thinking that was the day that it actually "really" ended for him....
gotta go get S...
but, Desdamonda, your post was the last one on my old thread, I wanted to copy it here for continuity's sake and will jot a bit about it tomorrow: I thought most therapists were in therapy. To help them process all the negativity that they hear every day. How odd. I know my friend goes off on seminares etc and continues to work on being self actualized. It sounds like your husband is prideful.
I am not sure about the talking. I think I would have loves my husband to just talk truthfully with me like that. Only you know what will work for the two of you.
I understand how difficult it is to deal with someone who refuses to address their "stuff" I am not sure about your husband, but in my husband's case, I think therapy would be about changing and he doesn't see a need to change anything. He intends to continue taking prescription drugs, smoking and keeping secrets.
Sounds like you are doing great handling everything. desdamona
thought I'd try to update and evaluate and respond to some posts...been a long time since I've done much here. Plus, I havent heard from H this morning, and I STILL have trouble not being anxious about that...
first, Desdamonda...you mentioned on my last thread:
Quote: I thought most therapists were in therapy. To help them process all the negativity that they hear every day.
I wish! It would be helpful to process all the "hard stuff", that's for sure, but I think it's a very cultural thing. My take is that in this area of the country, most of them aren't....and I'd bet especially the males aren't. Kind of the "old west" bootstrap mentality that's still alive and well.
Quote: I know my friend goes off on seminares etc and continues to work on being self actualized.
yes, everyone who's licensed under Behavioral Sciences Regs is required to attend continuing education each year to maintain it, but the requirements specify that it has to be on diagnosis, treatment, and ethics. which kind of adds to the "meat grinder" aspect...not much time left for personal development types of things.
Quote: To help It sounds like your husband is prideful.
interesting that you mention this...i've often debated to myself if his pride is part of the problem. I'm not sure, maybe that is it, but the more I think of it I almost think it's more a lack of self-esteem and a fear of failure coupled with his terribly high expectations of himself. It's like anything less than complete stoic functionality on his part is some kind of failure, and he's worked so hard to stuff his emotional side for so long that now it's all jumbled up and spilling out in really negative ways. I don't know if that makes any sense, and I'm not sure what it means for how I respond and relate, but just something I thought I'd note as it occurred to me.
Quote: I am not sure about the talking. I think I would have loves my husband to just talk truthfully with me like that. Only you know what will work for the two of you
I've been unsure about it too. I now realize that it's been very helpful to me and although it's been painful, it's helping me to get a better understanding of the sitch...and from that I start to see some possible solutions. I actually read in "not just friends" about the talking, that it is necesary for the couple to come to a mutual understanding of the sitch, but sometimes it has to be delayed till it can be "handled", but the guideline is that if you feel some better after 2 days or so (even if it's painful at the time) then it is "working"... I remember when way way back one of my goals was to have H talk to me about what was going on. Part of what was making me so crazy was not having a clue what was going on in his head or between them, and at that time he was not about to open up about ANY of it. So this must be progress. What is your thread, Desdamonda?
Rotzilla, you asked about the exercise. The last 3 weeks i've not done well at all, I got out of the "swing" while we were gone on vacation and have had a tough time getting back. My goal is to make it to work out Friday and Saturday this weekend.
In spite of everything, the guy can still melt my heart without even trying...guess that's why I'm such a sucker. I just got this short email from him:
Quote: Deb; Man, I’ve been busy, tough cases today. I’ve just a minute so I wanted to let you know I made it over and was thinking of you. Love D
Somehow just that couple of sentences means so very much. I also remember the days when I used to want that kind of thing so much.....just some little teeny loving contacts...that it hurt physically, broke my heart longing for it. So, I guess that too has come to pass.
Deb, things have changed so much for you! I know what you mean about the heart melting thing--don't you just get a little butterfly when you see him. Even after 11 years of being together I still get that when he walks into a room. You didn't mention it but I'm sure you do let him know how much you appreciate those e-mails and good they make you feel. My H isn't that romantic so I don't get much of that stuff. For me it's the phone calls when he isn't going to be right home to tell me what he's doing. Sometimes I forget but I try really hard to tell him I am glad he called and I appreciate it. I know it is an incentive to him to keep doing it if he knows I appreciate it.
Life is so much different than before isn't it! Last night my H was telling me his friend wanted him to go to the jet ski competition with him in Nevada "to look at the girls". H didn't think it was a good idea for a "fat kid" like him to do that cuz they'd all laugh. (yes, he is a little over weight!). Anyway, I said I didn't think that was true and I thought he was the best. He said, "I know you do, that's why you are mine". So, I think they just want us to adore them no matter what. It's hard sometimes, but that's what "act as if" is for, right?
I hope things keep getting better and better for you!
You have worked so hard and you should definitely be proud. Your H has gone through alot and you have always been there to support him, even when he couldn't return the favor.
I havent really posted for several weeks, wanted to try to catch up so I can recall "events" and reflect to keep moving forward. It's been about 3 weeks since H's "emotional melt down" over ow's dating. As I look back I believe that must have been a sort of "final shutting of the door" for him in some way. I believe he's come quite a long way since then...I'm still watching him closely though, and have arranged for our PCP to send him a letter as a reminder that it's past time for his physical (then she can bring up AD's)...not sure what else I can to, I feel like too much direct pressure at this time would be counter productive.
Guess I'll start with an update from this weekend and work backwards. Things were quiet but busy this weekend, no paperwork, which has been all most 4 months now, and no 4 -5 hour sunday morning "walks", thank the lord. H "gritched" about having to still spend all day Saturday mowing, but that's pretty normal, h is tired of so much mowing (but doesnt want to hire someone or teach S, so whatever, an area to let him be the boss in) Friday morninng before I left for work, H initiated a fun "quickie"...no other ML all weekend, but he's been "ok" in other ways, so I've not been too anxious about it, although he's been a teeny bit less "romantic" or more distant the last 3 or 4 days. I've tried to remind myself of the Mars/Venus info about "cave time" and let him go and not worry about it. Then, Weirdly, I went to work out Friday evening and then to the store and wound up being gone for about 3 1/2 hours...when I got home, H was visibly "weird" and said "I didnt think you would ever get back" (although maybe it was just because I'd promised I'd pick him up some beer) and S told me he had been looking out the window several times while i was gone.
Nothing much Saturday. Yesterday, Sunday, H was watching football in the afternoon, I had supper in the oven and went in....Sat on the love seat next to his chair, then moved to the sofa and put my feet up...H said "arent you going to sit over here by me?"...I was surprised...H said "well I love you and I thought maybe you would come sit by me"...so I did, no big deal, I actually went over and kissed his forehead, sat beside him and took his hand and told him I loved him very much and loved to spend time with him, and that it means a lot to hear him say ILY. H held my hand and squeezed it... Last night in bed he snuggled up to me before I snuggled him, and kissed the back of my neck and my shoulders and said how much he loved me. He asked if I thought our marriage was having an "awakening"...in the church bulletin, there was a write up about Retrovaille (which I'd love to go to) mentioing the 4 stages of marriage...Infatuation, Disillusionment, Misery, and Awakening. I told him I thought so, that I'd thought of us when I read that as well, and we'd sure been through all the rest. I asked him if he'd been 100% sure he was leaving for ow at one point, if there must have still been some part of him that didnt want to because he didnt, and he kept hanging around, he never left. H said that was true, that he had always wanted me to want him but he didnt think I did. that he thought I just was "done" with him and didnt know how to "end it" or "get away from me"...so he was just going to do it with someone he thought did want him. I told him I always wanted him and "us", but thought he didnt and "gave up"...that I was very sad and lonely at the time...H said "I think you realized you wanted me when you almost lost me"...I told him no, I had always wanted him but had given up, just decided to stand and fight rather than fold. H said he was thankful that I did. I told him there'd been so many times when I was full of doubt, and really disgusted with myself as I sometimes saw myself as a sad-eyed pitiful "puppy" mournfully trotting after him. H said "no, you were'nt, you were incredibly strong and courageous. You've been a rock through this whole thing.
I wound up getting tearful thinking of how sad each of us was thinking the other didnt care or want us, and how we were wandering down seperate paths in our misery, and we very nearly wound up apart with neither of us wanting that. I wondered how many other people that happens to. H held me, and said I have nothing to worry about.
I was thinkingn nothing much happened this weekend, but now as I type it occurs to me that maybe this was a pretty important conversation.
Mollie, Hi! I meant to say hello and spaced it off. I've been thinking of you lately and then you popped in. So cool! I need to track down your thread and catch up with you...
Quote: I know what you mean about the heart melting thing--don't you just get a little butterfly when you see him. Even after 11 years of being together I still get that when he walks into a room.
ummmm, yeah, it's pretty amazing, but it's been 27 years now, and I always get the little butterflies when I see him, and sometimes my heart actually jumps and sometimes....uhhhhh, hmmmmm, I just plain feel horny as h--l from the mere sight of hime and want to grab him and ....have my way with him!!!! It's kinda embarrasing to admit that I still feel that way for some reason, I'm not sure why. But, I've come to realize a BIG part of our problems has been my shyness....I never let him know I felt that way, and I almost lost him...he keeps asking me "why" I never opened up about it...and I have no good answers, except that I learned very clearly NOT to as I was growing up. Dang, did I ever get led astray.
Quote: You didn't mention it but I'm sure you do let him know how much you appreciate those e-mails and good they make you feel.
Oh yeah! that's a lesson learned the hard way. I try to make sure that I let him know ALWAYS how much I appreciate it. and how much I appreciate all the stuff he DOES do...mowing the lawn, laundry,...and I've let the stuff he doesnt do that I wish he'd do go unmentioned. Another lesson it took me all these years to learn that I wish I'd discovered earlier.
Every now and then I tell him how grateful I am to him for the home he's provided. Even though it's pretty modest and I figure I did 1/2 of it and we owe way too much money on it....it's nice and comfortable and I wouldn't have it if it werent for him. And, he always somehow looks so grateful to hear that. and he ususally talks about how much it means to him and how much we've accomplished together.
sigh. Why do these lessons take so long to come?????????????
Also this past weekend: H suggested we should make plans to do christmas at "our" vacation spot. S and I readily agreed that sounded fun...I was thinking this was good, in that H was seeming to be working towards "reclaiming" "our territory" ( as talked about in Not Just Friends )He mentioned having D and SIL join us....I pointed out that they might not be able to....and he kind of back tracked then, with "we just as well stay here if they can't come"...I asked "why" and he said the 3 of us would just be out there and lonesome....that "the kids" are always so excited about it, it makes it fun.....I told him I'd be excited, it would be very different, and he kind of hemmed and hawed around that it wouldnt be the same, but he'd do whatever S and I wanted to...I let it drop, but my guess is that maybe it's still a "tender" spot from ow days.
there was also a casual discussion of ow....H said the "poor new sucker" is going to get taken for a ride financially is his guess, that monster was always wanting him to take her shopping and buy stuff for her house...got my kinda fired up...I got to thinking about that, and asked H...what were you supposed to take her shopping for? just you buy whatever she saw that she wanted??? H said yes, he guessed so....I asked "what for the house?" he said furniture...I said "let me guess, a sofa?" and he said "yes"....I told him that still gets under my skin, that we could use a new sofa and he hasnt bought one for home, and he's never in all these years taken me shopping for whatever I happened to see....H kinda snickered and said "well, she was trying to furnish the love nest...and I didnt do any of it anyway, I tried to give her one of our old ones but that wasnt good enough and you put an end to it anyway (yeah, I remember the days he was going to haul furniture to her, When I was so naive I didnt know there was anything going on....) I have to laugh though, I should have let him take the old one in the basement to her.....
H was kind of flip and snickering during this discussion, the thought that it was high schoolish of both of us occured to me. He commented that "I used the JC (my 42-yearold confirmed batchelor brother)school of relationships theory"...I asked what that was and H said "never give a woman anything they ask for and they'll go away".... hmmmmmmm, wasnt sure what to make of the comment other than it sounded like something a high school sophomore would say, so I let it dropped. I did wonder though if it could mean lingering MLC issues...still some replay????
I have notes from the last 2 weeks of dbing all over my desk on scraps of paper, so thought I'd try to jot them down here for reference and introspection. They will probably make no sense to any one, but as I consider things, I feel like I'm developing a clearer understanding of what led to our sitch. Hopefully with that will come knowledge I can use to propel us further down the road.
the end of last week, H was recounting an interaction he had by email with monster (I wish she'd go away already!) evidently some issues arose from her giving instructions that were far outside her bounds/authority to one of H's clients. H brought it to her supervisor's attn; THEN monster began to challenge his diagnosis by email (dumb) and H emailed that to her supervisor. I'm guessing she'll be out for blood after that ....sigh....havent heard much from H today, I hope he's not having to deal with all that crap. H says her supervisor is compiling stacks of written information regarding co-worker and client complaints against her, that he coached her and supported her (monster) and helped her hang on here this long. yuck. I wish he hadnt done that, and hopefully she will hang herself soon, as in any day now.
It's kinda embarrasing to admit that I still feel that way for some reason, I'm not sure why. But, I've come to realize a BIG part of our problems has been my shyness....I never let him know I felt that way, and I almost lost him...he keeps asking me "why" I never opened up about it...and I have no good answers, except that I learned very clearly NOT to as I was growing up. Dang, did I ever get led astray.