I'm starting a new thread because the last one was a mess of confusion and wallowing in a bad place. Me worrying about every little thing that was goin on between me and H. I've just finished reading DR and am finally convinced that I need to change myself to see positive results. Knock me in the head with a brick right?! Also, I'm finally in a much better place emotionally and not dwelling on our past mistakes all the time. I'm ready to move FORWARD! finally. In order to do that, I see how I have to stop telling H what to do and how to live his life. That's how I've handled things in the past (it doesnt work). He also has depended on me to tell him exactly how to handle everything. So, I've spent all my time living my life and his, not very successfully.
Can any of you tell me the things you've done to break this cycle in your M? I'm so confused on how to proceed at this point. H seeks my advice and I'm not sure if I should tell him what I think or not. I know that I've made him feel incompetent by pointing out what he could do differently, or the things that aren't getting done unless I do them.
Examples: H is trying to decide whether or not to take a new job. Pros: He won't be working with OW anymore (a request I've made of him). It will be back in the career field that he loves. Cons: Its an 80 mile drive to work and a little less money. Gas costs will kill us. Right now he has govt insurance and retirement and this job wouldnt give him that security.
He keeps asking what I think, and honestly, I don't want to make the decision for him. I'll accept whatever he decides, but should I voice my opinion at all? I'm afraid if I ask him not to take this job that he'll continue to work with OW forever. So, if I voice my opinion, I'm going to have to accept that he may never be out of total contact with her. I think I can do that, but I'm having a very hard time letting go of the side of me that wants to be difficult about this. Would it be better to let him make the decision without my input, or do I tell him that he's probably better off where he is until he finds something closer, and that I'll be patient with him still working with OW?
Another issue: H still doesnt take an initiative to do things that need to be done around here without being specifically told what to do. Example: Our lawn mower has been broken for two weeks. I asked him to have our neighbor fix it because he works at the lawnmower repair shop. He hasnt done that. He did however ask another neighbor to borrow his mower (which I think is ridiculous!). The grass is getting higher and higher and no movement on getting the mower fixed. Seems like a small problem I know, but it's just the way everything is handled. There are so many maintenance issues that just dont get taken care of.. I could go on forever. Do I just ignore it and act like I dont care.. compliment him on what he does do around here? I've been doing that, but it hasnt made him any more likely to do the things that REALLY need to get done. Do I let the grass get to the windows and not say a word? Do I just handle it myself? I've always nagged him until he does these things and it causes resentment on my side and his. He's perfectly content doing laundry, cleaning around here, but when it comes to vehicle maintenance and house maintenance, he just doesnt seem to care. Drives me batty! Should I just take over the stuff that he hates to do? Do I discuss it with him first? Let him clean his little heart out while I get the grass taken care of? I've been thinking of letting the household chores pile up and me concentrating on the chores that I think he should be taking care of. Maybe I should just hire a guy to cut the grass. The problem with that is that we really can't afford that, and H wouldnt say a word about spending the money on that. He also doesnt worry about our finances too much, so I can't even spend money until he feels the squeeze on his wallet.
Any ideas would be welcome. I know that me directing traffic and making all the decisions IS NOT working. I just don't see him stepping up to take over the things that I've controlled even though he says he hates it when Im controlling. I'm thinking about giving him a call and asking his advice on what chores I should concentrate on today and listing the lawnmower and grass as one of them. What do you think? It would be a 180 for me to ask him what I need to get done.
I just thought I'd post that there's resolution to the grass issue! I know it seems like such a small thing, but in the scope of our life, getting H to take steps and get things done on his own is major. Mostly because if I get frustrated and complain, it makes him less and less likely to do anything.. it's like he just shuts down trying. So, yesterday I didnt mention the grass or lawn mower at all. I got out of the house instead of doing my normal Sat chores and did a couple of things he would usually do. I took S2 to get stitches removed without H even mentioning it (I knew he would be pressed for time this week) and he normally does the Dr. visits especially if it involves one of the kids crying and scared. I also took both boys to the barber shop (D11 told me that they won't sit still and it stresses H out). We also did our grocery shopping.. H was expecting to have to go with us when he got home.. he was being sweet to offer because I didnt get it done Thurs. I left the cell at home. All of this is a 180 for me because he works on Sat and comes home thinking he needs to get us out of the house and do something. He was pleasantly surprised that the errands were finished and the boys were napping when he came in. I didn't bother him at work at all, and he made a comment about not being able to get ahold of me. I had 6 missed calls when I checked the cell. Progress!
We went to watch D11 cheer and H offered to grill chicken, but I told him to relax because it's hot. This morning he got up and made bfast and went to get charcoal. He said "My girls are getting their grilled chicken today" Believe me.. he's never been a cook, so it's wonderful that he's pitching in. And the biggie.. I didn't mention the grass AT ALL. And right now, he's out there mowing the grass... unbelievable. He tinkered with the mower and got it running. Michele is a genius! I stop nagging and he does exactly what needs to be done with a few surprises thrown in.
Another positive from yesterday. He keeps asking me what's wrong because I'm quiet I guess. Actually, I'm not smothering him and keeping busy with the kids and other stuff. I told him that I'm fine and asked him if he's feeling OK because he's been crashing on the love seat in the evenings. He said that he's had a lot on his mind the last couple of days, in regards to the job offer. I told him that I'll listen if he needs me to and let it go.
After awhile he came and found me and said that he's having a tough time making a decision. He said he knows it's farther away and less money, but that he's feels like every day he stays at his present job, he's driving a nail into my heart by being around OW. I told him that I understand how hard it must be to have to make a decision like this, but I'm sure he'll do the right thing. I validated that it isn't the perfect job offer and that I can see why he wouldn't want to take a lesser job and drive so far. He said that he has as long as he needs to decide, so it might be awhile before he does.
Then later he asked me to talk to him about my feelings. He said that he is constantly wondering what I'm thinking (I'm not sharing my every thought and concern with him anymore, not crying or complaining about how hard this is). We had a long R discussion with him doing most of the talking and reassuring me. He asked me about DR and I explained a little about the book. We started talking about goals and he said that we need some. I asked him if he thought he could come up with three short term goals that would make our M better. He said "why don't we sit down tomorrow evening and talk about that" He asked me what I thought would be one of my goals that would show me things are moving forward. I told him that it would be nice if we could cuddle more and be really close instead of our only intimate contact be ML. He said that we can do anything that I need to make me feel more connected to him and start building my feelings back. He also commented on something I told him the other day. I had told him that my feelings are not what they used to be and that I miss feeling "crazy" about him and connected. He asked how I feel when we ML and I said... well, I can feel those feelings coming from you, and I feel guilty because I cant give that back to you right now. He told me last night that hearing that I can feel his love for me made him feel great... just that I'm realizing that his feelings are coming back after he said ILYBINILWY. He said that he can tell I'm happier with that part of our relationship and he feels much better about us that I'm not constantly doubting his love for me. He said it was the thing that made him feel so bad... that he has strong feelings for me, but I wouldnt trust that they were real.
It seems the less I try to control.. the more he is trying. I think maybe instead of asking for what I want.. I've spent A LOT of time complaining about what he's doing. I just hope he starts feeling less and less like he has to walk on eggshells and do exactly what makes me happy. He mentioned golfing with the friend I'm not fond of and I didn't say a word of complaint. I actually hope that he does go and enjoy himself. The farther he gets from me telling him what do do.. the better!
Thanks PM I think we're definately turning a corner. I have to really stick with my PMA and acting "As if". H and I did have a convo about our goals and it went well. We discussed common goals and then our individual goals. I took note that my individual goals were all about me, and his were still geared toward our relationship. I asked him later if there was anything that I could do better, or not do to make him feel better about us moving forward. He thought and said that my mood changes sometimes and he's wondering what I'm thinking, and what's wrong. He worries that I'm thinking about the A, and his work sitch. I understand that.. in the past, I've been OK, and then all of a sudden I get down, or filled with anger. He is worried that we're getting into a good place, but then I'm still not really forgiving him, or letting this go. Gonna to have to work very hard to maintain the peaceful place we're in and not allow emotions or anger to take over if we have a bad day. The problem is, he's asked me to talk to him about my feelings, and I really don't want to do that and concentrate on the negative. I'm going to have to "act as if" until I regain the trust we need to have. Then he said that he's noticed I'm not as bossy. Yahoo! Major progress.. working really hard on that one. Detaching and letting him control his life without me constantly monitoring and giving suggestions (bossy me!). Laid back and accepting.. that's what I'm going for. He seems to shine when he doesn't have to worry about doing something that I'll b*tch about.
I've had my moments of doubt.. and I've snooped some. Bad bad bad! I found a napkin with a lipstick kiss on it yesterday in our van. My heart fell... it was sitting folded up by some stuff of his from work. Then I remembered that D11 and her girlfriends were in the back seat last weekend all glossed up, and had napkins from the bowling alley. I breathed a sigh of relief, but it rattled me a little. Then this morning H didnt call me on his long break like he usually does. He had called earlier and said "our friend isnt here today or something..I haven't seen her". He never mentions her, so that was odd..and when he didnt call, I pictured them eating together. He called later and said he tried to call but got my voicemail. My cell doesnt show any calls at all. ???? Gotta let it go or we'll argue about if he's hiding something or not.
Soooo... I'm glad I got that out of my system and thought it through. Nothing but happy, happy the rest of the day if he calls. And tonight we'll be watching for Katrina to come this way, so I think I'll cook and make it festive. My bday is tommorow and if it rains, I'm staying home. Maybe H will call in too.. not going to expect it, but maybe we'll wait the weather out together. During Ivan we had a great time playing cards, cooking, and just watching mother nature at work.
Actions:
Go to the gym 3 days this week Keep PMA and acting as if Compliment H and notice the changes he's making
Goals: H will initiate snuggling at least once without ML H will suggest something that he's like to do on our date day, Thurs H will discuss his feelings without me asking
Good for you for not being bossy! Your story about the napkin is pretty funny in a backwards sort of way. Try not to allow your imagination free reign.
I've thought a lot about the decision your husband has to make concerning his job. I believe he needs to know from you whether or not you could handle him staying in this job with the OW still there. What if he didn't take this far away job with no benefits? Can you project how you would feel? I can see the benefit issue weighing heavily on him. That's what has my H all in a tizzy over possibly being fired (he's upped a notch from being laid off). He worries constantly about not having insurance.
Could you live with that decision if your H continued to search for another position?
married 6 years, mom of 2 struggling to make a strong family
Aaaack! I don't like the answer to your question PM..lol Yes, I could live with him not taking this job. I think that's the best decision for him to make right now. So the thing is... why won't I just tell him my opinion? The answer is what I don't like in myself. I don't want to reassure him that I'll be fine with him working with OW until the right job comes along. That's like letting them win. Stubborn, huh? After telling him that this was my number one issue, it's like rolling over to tell him that I'll be OK if he doesn't go to the other job.
I'm being prideful and stupid on this one. I guess what I should do is tell him that it's OK, I'll understand the spot he's in.. that I won't take his decision as an effort to continue to hurt me and that I'll be patient until the right job comes along and we both decide it's best. It's like saying it's OK with me to continue to be in contact with her though.. I'm having a hard time making peace with it. I guess I should choose to be happy instead of choosing to be right.. or something like that. I'm gonna have to suck it up and let him off the hook on this I know. But, in the meantime, he's trying extra hard to make contacts and send out resumes. I'm also afraid that if he thinks it's OK to wait for the right job.. he'll stop making an effort to get out of there entirely. and.. I still do hate it that they see each other all the time.
I am right there with you! My H is also looking for a new job. He had an EA with a co-worker and it drives me insane that they have daily contact with each other. There are a lot of positives in my sitch but I'm having a really hard time moving past this issue of H and OW working together for a number of reasons.
Something that I came to recently is that regardless if my H and OW work togther, the issue of their "friendship" and its impact upon my M will only be resolved on its own terms. Regardless if H and OW are co-workers or not, the issue will take time. However, I want her gone now. I hate this person and the fact that she is in my H's life at all makes me very angry and kind of sad too.
I would be happy to help you by offering support and checking in. Feel free to check out my thread on this forum. It's under help with depressed spouse.
Thanks Sikan. And we're both battling depression too.
However, I want her gone now. I hate this person and the fact that she is in my H's life at all makes me very angry and kind of sad too.
I can relate to that so much.. it's exactly how I feel.
Something that I came to recently is that regardless if my H and OW work togther, the issue of their "friendship" and its impact upon my M will only be resolved on its own terms. Regardless if H and OW are co-workers or not, the issue will take time.
And, you are very right. Regardless of where he works, their friendship could be an issue, or not. Thanks for helping me focus. I'm going to have to have patience and look for the good to hang my trust on. There's always the fact that he's going to be working with women wherever he goes. It's just so easy to focus on OW, and say "everything will be better if he'll just get another job!" Thanks for sharing.. I think I realize now that I want a TOTAL fix. Not just him away from her.. but a marriage that will prevent him from having an A with anyone at all.
Gonna let him off the hook tonight and be supportive. He'll either look for another job or not.. and either way, I'm going to work to be the kind of S that he is eager to get home to.. and satisfying to be with.
I'll check out your thread.. thanks for the support. Things are looking up for us, but I know you know, the good comes and goes.. this board helps so much when I'm feeling down and hopeless.
I wanted to find out more about your H's depression. How long has he had it? What were the symptoms? I know about the A but how and when did that start? Did he use other forms of escape? My H also happens to be an alcoholic.
EAs and PAs are very common in the depressed. A great book to read about what may be going through the minds of the depressed is "Depression Fallout" by Anne Sheffield. It's an essential read for the loved-ones of the depressed.
The last year has been a major depressive episode, after probably years of suffering from mild depression. That's all we can tell when we go back over the last 18 years. The psych says he stuffs his emotions and doesnt deal with them.. it's a pattern he learned in childhood. Escape.. yes, he has just shut down most of our M. I dont know if you've caught our history on the other thread, but we've had a roller coaster of a R. He's consistently lied to me and others, lived a secret life, had a PA 13 yrs ago, a porn addiction (my opinion), financial problems galore, went from job to job for the first half of our M. He just basically couldn't "get it together", and the parts that needed fixed in his life - he ignored, or lied about. He also had a hard time seeing how his actions could hurt someone, or showing empathy.
He's been on Dep meds since May and he's much improved. A totally different outlook on life. Not sure how long he'll be on them, but he missed a day and it took him a week to bounce back. He's on double doses of Wellbutrin and Lexapro. The regular dose didnt help and I thought we'd have to hospitalize him.. thank God for our Dr!
Escape.. that's what he calls most of what he's done. Just running from life
I've heard of that book.. I'll have to check the library for it. H seems interested in reading about depression. I think it helps his feelings of guilt to know he's had an illness, but I also know he's afraid that he'll fight this battle the rest of his life.
Had a positive last night though. During a scheduled R discussion, H asked me to acknowledge his feelings more. He said that when he cries, or shows emotion, he needs me to respond and comfort him. He's not used to dealing with emotions or even feeling them and he needs me to help and show him that I understand. That's a first! I hadn't even realized that I wasn't doing that..I've become so used to him not needing me that it didn't occur to me to hug him or comfort him. DOH!
I think we're definately turning a corner. I have to really stick with my PMA and acting "As if". H and I did have a convo about our goals and it went well. We discussed common goals and then our individual goals. I took note that my individual goals were all about me, and his were still geared toward our relationship. I asked him later if there was anything that I could do better, or not do to make him feel better about us moving forward. He thought and said that my mood changes sometimes and he's wondering what I'm thinking, and what's wrong. He worries that I'm thinking about the A, and his work sitch. I understand that.. in the past, I've been OK, and then all of a sudden I get down, or filled with anger. He is worried that we're getting into a good place, but then I'm still not really forgiving him, or letting this go. Gonna to have to work very hard to maintain the peaceful place we're in and not allow emotions or anger to take over if we have a bad day. The problem is, he's asked me to talk to him about my feelings, and I really don't want to do that and concentrate on the negative. I'm going to have to "act as if" until I regain the trust we need to have. Then he said that he's noticed I'm not as bossy. Yahoo! Major progress.. working really hard on that one. Detaching and letting him control his life without me constantly monitoring and giving suggestions (bossy me!). Laid back and accepting.. that's what I'm going for. He seems to shine when he doesn't have to worry about doing something that I'll b*tch about.