Quote: I must respond, however, to your comment that another man would have her "eating out of his hand." The reference is, I believe, to horses, indicating that a good horse trainer has such control of an animal that she will eat right out of his hand with no danger of his getting bitten.
You need to read a book by Monty Roberts called Horse Sense For People. You will learn that a horse trainer's goal is not to control the animal but to alleviate the animal's basic fears and come to a point with the animal that there is mutual love and respect. Once you are at that point with the animal neither one of you have to worry about being bitten.
Quote: I did not enter marriage with this intent. I want an equal partner, not a beast to be whipped into shape. I had held out hope that W could evolve into partner worthy of my companionship. I am coming to the conclusion that this may never happen.
If you related to your wife during one of her tirades the same way a horse trainer relates to his horse then you would find yourself with an equal partner. I didn't suggest you "whip" your wife into shape. I suggested you show some respect for yourself and her, which is the best move you could make for yourself, her and your children. I'm not sure why you want to equate setting boundaries with someone's behavior with abuse of that person.
You say you had hoped that your wife could evolve into a partner "worthy" of your companionship. That is a rather smug statement to make isn't it? Maybe her anger comes from knowing you don't feel she is worthy of your companionship. She is, according to your posts a very angry woman who has a tendency to blow up periodically. That anger is based in some sort of fear. It's an energy within her that gets pent up and has to be released from time to time. Any good horse trainer will tell you that if you are dealing with a horse who periodically throws a fit then you are dealing with a horse who has not yet come to fully trust you as their trainer and owner. Could it be that your wife's fear is baased in some issue she herself is having with the marriage but is unable to identify? You post to this board about your issues with the marriage, you are able to communicate your issues and try and find a solution to what you feel are the problems in the marriage. Maybe she does not have the same talents for communication that you do. Maybe she has only a feeling to go on but has not yet been able to put words to those feelings. Your wife's behavior points to someone that is clearly in great distress over something and it may take you changing how you respond to her tirades for her to ever be able to identify what her issues are.
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OG_Lou has about the same opinion as I have regarding a domicile. I have a short commute to work and would need a very good reason to exchange it for a much longer one. In addition, our cash flow each month is flat to negative.
This is not even about a house. She blows up, pitches her fits, demands a bigger house with a walk in closet, spends a few days making everyone miserable and then, things go back to normal for a bit. If the house was really what was behind the behavior she would not be dropping the issue. The house is an excuse for her to blow up, get rid of the repressed anger she is feeling. You are not the only one unhappy in the current state of your marriage. You are just the only one who is able to handle your unhappiness in a direct way.
Looking at your wife as being the wrong woman or unworthy of your companionship is going to get you nowhere as far as getting the problems in your marriage solved. It takes two to tango Paul, you aren't dancing alone here.
It's like Karen said, there are basic rules of respect and basic rules of engagement. I don't believe either one of you have learned that yet. You've made demeaning comments here about your wife and her value to you as a wife. You can't tell me those feelings you have about her do not come out loud and clear to her in your daily life. I know what it feels like to live with a man who thinks you are the one that needs to be fixed, that you are the one who needs to change and that if only you would change then you might be worthy of him and what he had to offer. It turns you into an angry person who blows their top periodically.
I don't mean to be hostile with you BUT, in my opinion, your wife is in pain, she deals with her pain in an immature fashion and she needs someone who is willing to exert some external control and boundaries. Not someone to whip her into shape but someone who loves her and himself enough to start acting in a way that will eventually mean they both get basic respect and love.
I imagine she is very worthy of you and I'm betting if you could open up her heart and look deep inside what you might see is deep feelings of shame and unworthiness that she feels about herself. No one who truly respects and loves themselves behaves the way your wife does. Cathy
I thought I recalled some marital counseling but I am really talking here about IC and some anger management or something. In my opinion there are some times to let the marital stuff wait and just say to our S - you are out of line and you need to take care of it. I am here for you. I will help you but I won't put up with the bs. If there was a counselor that is already familiar with you both then maybe W can see her individually. Did W apologize for this stuff at any point? I recall the post about the carrying things back and forth stuff. I realize that we are all irrational, babyish and silly at points but this particular set of events read "over the top" to me.
Karen, I hear you-- I wasn't suggesting joint counseling for Paul's W's anger issues. I was just remembering that he searched long and hard for a Japanese counselor that he thought his W would relate to. I didn't remember reading how that went. I agree her behavior was outrageous.
Cathy, your comments make sense, but have you gone back and read Paul's history rom a year or so ago? There's a lot of context here that might help you tailor your advice to Paul's sitch of being married to a Japanese woman who travels a lot as a flight attendant and who wants the children to sleep with them as she was raised in Japan. He has been REALLY patient and tolerant of the situation for a long time.
RE: Cathy47 That anger is based in some sort of fear. Paul, almost everyoue in the airline industry is under pressure. What does your W feel about her job, its stability, and other employment feelings.
BB worked with a lady that vented about her H at work. This affected BB as she would come home ald let me have part of what she heard at work. BTW this co-worker treated her H well in real life.
Is your W comparing what she sees other workers have to what you two have. BB does this, comparing what the neighbors have. I have to tell BB everything we have is paid for, I suppose the neighbors have tons of loans to have so much.
You know no one wins in a comparison situation. You never know all the facts.
About a Japaneese counselor, sounds like that would be good if you lived in Japan. You don't. Your Kids don't. Maybe your W does part time. Sounds like a sticky wicket.
I went to a Japanese counsellor once, alone. I did relay her suggestions to W. I have not brought up the issue of counselling, but maybe I will now.
No, W has not apologized for her outbursts. She is back to her "normal" self, as if nothing happened. I still feel dazed, though. I moved my stuff back upstairs and we'll see if they are still there tonight.
Lou, It's been two years since the Chapter 11 axe began to descend, and it has been chopping our lives into bits ever since. She seems to have accepted the situation, though she apparently believes the threat of dissolution has passed. I'm not so sure. She has had us go to places saying, "We had better go while the company still exists."
Holy cow have you put up with alot of stuff. Would helping to compare what sizes of home in Tokoy with what you have help her to understand how much you have? I fought the kid in the room for along time it wasn't every night but too darn much. I feel for you man. It seems that there is no simple answer but I agree with who ever said there maybe more than just the house going on here. Work, kids, could she starting "the change" some of what you taked about happen in my house because of it. Hope you keep your sanity through all.
Thanks for the empathy. W knows quite well how cramped quarters are in Japan. The women there work hard to keep such tiny places very neat, even when they have little kids.
I know I could be neater, and I'm trying.
Is there something else going on besides the house? Yes I'm sure there is. Everything is interconnected. Her tempest has simmered down, but I'm still kind of numb.
An update on the mandksdad household. I'm a little less angry than I was, partially because W has been gone. Before she left. she once again removed my stuff to the basement, which actually surprised me, since she had begun speaking to me before that.
I'm going to suggest a weekly schedule. ML, dinner, counselling, a walk, a talk, it's her call. I just want some time with her uninterrupted once a week for at least an hour. Aug 29 is a big day for us. For the first time, both kids will be in school for 6 straight hours. I doubt we give hit the sack immediately, but I think it is fair to ask for some time alone with W each week if the kids are gone for 30 hours each week. If she can't swing that, then I guess we're hopeless.
Paul, I think you have to reduce the times your W decides to be head honcho and does what only pleases her but walks all over you.
I might forget about sack time for a while. If you are a little like me, soften up to show appreciation for some nookie and hope it will happen again, let me tell you, It does not work. I am nos saying what you say should rule or don't be nice to her but do what you would with a friend and no sex was involved.
That occassional sex thing is not big enough of a carrot to be jumping through so many hoops. Frank but friendly.
I had to dump dinner a couple of times before BB quit complaining about the choices I made for dinner. It's tough to be firm but fair.
Do what you think you need to do. You are living with her, I am not. Remember "fair" and that means to both of you.
