It's great to see you and your H making this progress together! Youve come so far in such a short time. I think it's great that you narrowed down your issues to a couple of digestible points. I'll have to remember that when I get in a tizzy. Keep up the PMA!
H and I are still in a good phase. Interesting occurance last night. H asked if anyone at my work dressed up for Halloween. I said yes because there was a party/barbeque. Not many but a few. I asked him if anyone at his work did. He said yes. I asked who? He said a few interns and a couple of employees. Then (with some contempt in his voice) he said "OW dressed up". Very neutrally, I said "Oh really?" He told me what kind of costume she was wearing and that she had been at some party over the weekend. He then went into a mini-rant about how he has a lot of problems with people who refuse to grow up and that wearing costumes to work and staying out until 4 or 5 in the morning isn't appropriate for people who are no longer in their 20s. I didn't say a word and just let him talk. He said that OW asked him why he wasn't wearing a costume and he replied "Because I'm 34 yrs old." Very interesting.
I'm not looking at this as anything more than interesting. I'm not speculating on how this might be affecting their friendship. Let this thing unfold between them on it's own. It doesn't involve me at all! I was just totally surprised that he shared that with me! I think the neutral approach was best. I didn't even use it as an opportunity to rant along with him. There was no need to.
H and I are working on eliminating the assumptions we have towards each other. Convo came up this morning as we walked into work about how I felt that he didn't want to be tied to a decision because he is afraid to commit to things (my assumption). He got defensive (no surprise) and we talked about the what the difference is between what a decision is to him and what is being "tied down" to a specific idea or outcome. Heady talk for the morning, something we have tried to avoid but it was better that we got it cleared up. He was getting worked up and I asked him to take it down a notch. This time I was the calm one.
I'm still working on centering myself and the meditation is helping a lot. I'm just going to keep on this path and continue to eliminate my fears, whether they are related to H or not.
Hi Sikan - Just popping in to commend you on your reaction with H while he discussed ow negatively
If you have a sec, would you mind reading my last update? H's boss sent some pics with ff to my H and its bothering me.
Your post reminds me that I need to get back into Meditation. I had slacked off for a while and I can definitely see the difference in myself. How do stay motivated? Does your H give you space to do it? My H is kinda judgemental about all my self help books, tapes, meditation, etc.
Keep up the good work over here
Take Care, SP
According to the Buddha, praise and blame, gain and loss, pleasure and sorrow may "come and go like the wind," but happiness comes if you can "rest like a great tree in the midst of them all."
I needed a break from the BB for a little bit. Update- Things between H and I have been very good. It scares me actually. Strangely enough, I'm finding that I'm faced more with my own issues and fears that anything about the R or H.
H and I have been spending a lot of time with each other. We go into work together every day and H has been eating breakfast with me every morning instead of going back to his house. We've had a lot of very productive talks and spending much quality time together.
So here's the problem- I'm scared sh**less! I'm very frightened of being hurt again or making mistakes. Instead of trying to push things in our R faster, I've decided to slow them down. I have said to H that it will take some time before I am ready to move back inw ith him and I mean it. I'm finding that everytime I try to push things before they are ready, I freak out! I had a night of no sleep the other night because H couldn't sleep. I became convinced that he had something that he wasn't sharing with me, so I couldn't fall asleep. Perfect example of how much my fears still control me. I need to be able to see if my fears are true before I react to them. So what if my H wasn't sharing something with me? How would I know, what are the signs? How do I approach it if it were true?
Until I have these steps secure, I won't be able to commit to resume living with him.
We have had a couple of convos about OW. Nothing too big, more laying the groundwork for more in-depth discussions later on. Right now, I need him to understand that this is an issue that I still need to work through with him and I need him to see that I won't lose my s**t at the mere mention of her name. Good signs on that front, he has gotten to a point where he is answering his cell phone in front of me. He even showed me his cell phone when a strange # kept calling in. Also, OW had a derby match this past weekend and H did not attend. So, good signs and much progress.
I'm reading "Not Just Friends" on the advice of fellow dbers. It's a really good book but I can only read it while at work, which is rough. It makes me upset to read even though I find it extremely helpful. I have been reading several chapters once a week, while on my lunch break. I make sure I give myself a good 30 mins. to do mindless window shopping after reading. I find that it helps to break my obsessive thinking and allows me to return to work with a clear head. It's also helped to show me how much I use shopping as a form of escape!
I'd like to begin to talk to my H more about OW sitch. I'd love the advice of other dbers as I go along. Anyone on the board who has done this without a therapist? My H won't go for one and I won't push for one unless it's absolutely necessary.
Hi Sikan Good to hear that you and H are doing well. I know what you mean about dealing with your own issues and fears right now!
hmm hmm.. about OW. If you and H are getting along well and the R is moving forward, he's seeing less of OW and not hiding it, why do you want to talk about her more? Just a question, not a suggestion that you shouldnt really because only you know what you need. It's just that you're seeing such positive results with H right now having gotten to a place where you aren't talking much about OW, arent you? Is this part of your issues and fears? The wondering about her/them? and wanting her to just be gone? I understand that.. totally. Are you wanting the talk so that you can express your feelings about OW and how his R with her affects you and causes you to fear the future?
I don't have any advice.. but do have a friendly hug. I wish I knew what to say. I'd say don't discuss OW at all because that seems to be taking you to a good place with your H, but only you know what you need to do. I can say that all the talking in the world didnt make the difference I thought it would make with me. All the reassurances and mulling it over.. in the end, it was just my decision to leave it alone (and being pretty sure that H is through with her) that has given me peace with it. And you have to deal with your H maintaining contact, so that's tough.
Thank you for your input and your questions. Let me clarify what I meant by talking about OW more. (I tend to write my thoughts very quickly. It doesn't leave room for clarification.) I'm not planning on talking more about OW but rather getting closer to the topic. I'm definitely not planning on incresing the amount of R or OW talk. The progress that my H and I have made is that we can talk about what has happened between us (OW only being one part) in a more honest way. I'm looking to build upon that.
For example, recently after I had said that I still had some fears regarding our R, he became frustrated and said "I don't know what more I need to show you, to convince you that I am serious about committing to our R."
I've been think alot about that lately. My H likes to be acknowledged verbally about his actions of positive change. He thrives on recognition and likes to be told what to do (although he would never admit it). I'm looking to let him know that what he has been doing with his cell phone lately has been a tremendous help to me. And then using that as a very subtle lead-in to let him know that his attempts to be more honest are very apparent and very welcome and help me to be more relaxed.
I can't and won't and have been trying very hard not to make OW a point of focus in our R. Because quite honestly, she is not. Like I have said in past posts, she is a symptom of a larger problem with H and our R. She is ridiculously childish and eventually my H would outgrow anything she has to offer.
I need to detach myself from her. I'm starting to but it's like a bad habit at this point. I see how I use her to justify my anger at my R and my H without having to be angry solely with my H. Dumb mind trick that serves no purpose other than to injure myself.
Anyway, thank you for the question. Believe me I would talk about OW and ALL of my problems with H if I could but I've seen how that really doesn't work in so many ways.
I will jump onto your thread later on and check out your sitch. Boss has been lurking around alot today.
So, my H and I had a good weekend. We saw two shows this weekend and went on a trip on Sunday. H and I have become friends with another couple and we hung out with them on Saturday night. They are younger but very nice people, and in spite of their age difference, way more mature than a lot of other people we know.
The show on Friday was a bust but I put in the effort to go. I knew that my H was looking forward to it and he has been making an effort to do things that I like and/or need, so I wanted to return the favor. H agreed that it was a pointless night. We were both tired and the show was just lame. He's starting to acknowledge that he isn't capable or interested in going out simply for the sake of going out. Something that he was doing for quite some time before and in the earlier stages of our separation.
Saturday night, like I mentioned above, was much better. Better show, fun to go out with another couple. H likes them both, which is also relatively new. Previously H did not like anyone and was very critical of just about everybody. It's good to see him open up more, especially to people who despite being young are very laid-back and NOT about the scene at all.
H and I had some R convos this weekend. My first convo was about friendships, specifically platonic male and female friendships. I handled it a little bit akwardly but I made the point that it was never H's friendship with women that I had a problem with but rather a friendship that was very unclear to all involved. Basically saying that it's fine to have female friends as long as the parimeters of that friendship are very clear to me and the ff. In spite of my akward delivery, my H didn't react badly and instead of my knee-jerk reaction of trying to make things go smoothly at the expense of myself, I just let the convo end on a neutral note. I'm finding that I need to make myself clear (as hard as that is for me) and be ok with making that point. Usually, I find that I backpedal if I see that something I have said has upset someone. Standing my ground is new for me.
On Sunday, H and I had a short walk. I mentioned to him that there were two things that he has been doing lately that has made a big difference for me. One was that he has been taking calls in front of me and showing me the weird calls that have been coming through at all hours on his cell phone. I knew he was going to ask why this made a difference to me and I said that "it was because of the issue I had with who might be calling you and the arguments that would erupt between us regarding that issue." I didn't come right out and say "because I would get upset when OW calls or texts you on your phone." H is no dummy. The only time I would get upset is when OW would call.
Thankfully, he didn't push it and I went on to say that the second thing I appreciated was that he has been willing to participate in convos about our past and answer questions for me. I told him that I see that he is committed to being more honest with me and that it was very important to me that he was. He hugged me and said "thank you. It's taken me a while to do and I'm glad that you have noticed."
What I know about my H is that if you continue to plant these seeds, they do grow. H is probably still doing some less-than honest things (I don't know because I stopped spying on him) but he's not going to feel as compelled. I hear seeds that I have been planting for quite some time, come out of his mouth as if they were his own ideas. Don't get me wrong, my H is very much a free-thinker but he's also very influenced by those around him. It's like two separate entities. Typical Gemini.
So, I approach that sitch by not taking a manipulative approach (like I have in the past) but rather with the understanding that my H needs positive influences in his life. It could be me or any infinite # of things or people. My goal is to provide a positive setting in our R, to help him AND myself.
Here's something to consider about my sitch. One of the reasons, I am so sensitive to the OW issue is that several times in my past I was OW. Granted, I was very young and these were not with married men but it still didn't make my actions acceptable in any way. One in particular very much shames me. I wound up having a PA with someone in school who happened to have impregnated another student. This woman was a casual friend of mine. She spent the semester away to get her head together and asked him to do the same. He instead started a PA with me. She found out and asked me to leave him alone. I lied to her and said that I would but continued anyway. Needless to say this woman has not ever forgiven me. And I'm deeply regretful of my actions.
Strange similarities between the person I wronged and OW. Both consider themselves bad a** or punk rock or however you want to term it but they both adhere to a very specific aesthetic and lifestyle. It's strange to me that I only learned just how much I hurt this person by having the same thing done back to me and the fact that my OW is like the other person is just too coincidental.
I wonder how much of my hatred towards OW ties in with my shame of my past? Not that two wrongs make a right. I've found that I have had a very hard time forgiving myself for what I did. Maybe this whole thing with OW is also for me to examine what I did and move on?
I should know better by now! During an online search, I came across yet another online subculture community. Forgoing my promise to myself not to do this, I entered my H's email address in a random member search and low and behold his profile appeared. It seems like it is an old profile because the picture of him was several years old. Also, there wasn't anything in his profile except for this statement, "A beautiful girl told me there was too much hate in my profile, so now it is all gone."
His on-line activity has always concerned me. There are some aspects of my H that are very suspect to me. His secrecy is the biggest, obviously. I feel like sometimes there are two different people within my H. There is the good side that he shows to me (when all is going well), this is the one that he claims he wants to be and then there is the critical and judgemental/darker/dishonest side (the one I see when things aren't going well) that I suspect goes WAY deeper than the just the signs that slip out that I see or have found through searching out.
My H has said on occasion that he has a secret dark side that he desperately wishes he could show to someone but then there is the side of him that is afraid to have anyone see it. I honestly don't know if this "dark side" is truly dark or if it is a case of my H being over-dramatic which he can often be.
Look, I don't doubt that my H is a good and sane man, however this split does cause me concern.
I would love any feedback from other DBers who are dealing with their spouses' online activities. Also, anyone out there dealing with deep anger issues with spouses would be helpful too.
