I understand where you are coming from on this from my past LD days....and I know your POV on this is a frustrating one.
Let me ask you this...those times that you told your H you did't want to ML, why didn't you want to ML? Were you thinking back to "here we go again!" knowing he was going to persist anyway? And...is there anytime where you do find yourself in the mood to ML, if so...do you ever approach him?
Having been on both sides of this fence now I can say back when I was LD...approaching my H was something I wouldn't consider, I was too shy/awkward whatever.....but now as the HD person I can't impress upon you enough what an impact that would have on your H....and it's not even something you have to do all the time, but every now and then it makes the other person feel attractive, wanted, loved by their partner, which is something I'm sure your H is desperately seeking from you.
Hey fish, I think it was really jerky of your H to push you into ML when you said 'no.' I never did this to my W, but, after hearing "no" a bunch of times, I did start getting pissy with her. Rolling over, sighing, just not being very loving towards her.
You need to tell him all this.... That's your responsibility. He needs to understand it. That's his responsibility. Once you two are able to get over the "control" aspects of ML, then you'll be able to work on the "fun" aspect.
This makes more since then you would think. And it is very common I think.
Eventually I would give in because I hated it when he got mad and I would just lie there with my arms over my face, not wanting to look at him, getting more & more angry, thoughts like 'If he loved me he wouldn't do this', running through my head. Sometimes he would say things like, 'I don't want to do it if you're not into it', but he would never not do it!
I understand this all to well have lived it myself for years. I always felt it was one step away from being raped by my own H.(which is what saying yes for fear of retaliation feels like or saying no to someone and them still going feels like) So hence I took on a feeling of being victimized every time he touched me or said anything about sex. It turned into a burning hate somewhere inside me. Which turned into vivid dreams of dismembering my H in very painful ways. At this point I sought help thinking I may flip out one day. My C advised me that it was normal under the circumstances. I did not want or was not seeking validation I was seeking help to make what was under the surface that made me feel this way better. After finding this BB and reading and coming to a understanding of this emotional connection that seems elusive to me. And once I developed a better understanding behind my H needs. I realized understanding all this emotional stuff he felt through sex was not enough to make things better. I had to decide to stop viewing my marriage and my H from a victims view point. This is not a easy thing to do. I have more then just the sexual abuse I felt to jade my perception of my H. There is some physical and plenty of emotional abuse to boot as well that I had to just decide I would not play victim to from that point on. Basically I said the past is the past and as of today if I want to make this marriage work I will continue to do xyz and try to do it openly and honestly and based on today not yesterday. It is really hard to put all that resentment behind you. But resentment got you where you are in truth. The first time you said no to your H and he still continued to badger you or have sex with you your resentment was born and everytime since your resentment has grown and it now has a firm hold on your entire relationship. Like a ivy vine that sprouts roots and spreads everywhere until it strangles out your entire flower garden. Well now you have to decide if it would not just be better to pull all the ivy out and let the other flowers grow again, It will be hard there will be new sprouts from the roots that remain and you will have to constently tend to pulling the roots out. But you may end up with some beautiful flowers again after awhile. So what I am saying is you have to decide if you can change the way you view this issue. Can you say as of today I want my marriage to work I understand sex is a important part of a healthy marriage so as of today I will no longer be the unwilling partner and unwilling victim. I understand though I do not get a sense of being loved from sex my H does and it is important for me to make my H feel loved so I will actively and willingly engage in this act of love for him.
The emotional connection during sex for me is missing.
I lack it. Don't know if I have ever had it or if I did where in the past of my relationship I packed it away if it was even in this relationship that I became so emotionally defiect in or a past one. I am working through all of this myself right now. And it does not pertain to just sex where I lack emotional connection. I do not derive a sense of love by being hugged kissed or complimented by my H. Yet I know he loves me he is obsessed with me. It is hard to actively seek or want something that brings you little satisfaction. But these things are important to my H so I am trying to find a comfortable boundry for us both so he gets fufilled without me feeling harrassed. It is hard to try to always think from someone elses perspective when it is so different from your own. All the kissing and petting to me is like being 100lbs overweight and dieting and jogging everyday for years and never losing one pound or building up any muscle sorta senseless to do. But yet you have a running mate who has lost 50lbs and you know if you stop so will they.They need your encouragement so you continue jogging everyday for there benifit.
So question time.
Can you do it? Do you want to do it? Can you let go of how you have felt in the past? Can you say starting today I want a better marriage and this is what I am going to do. And do it without resentment. Can you actively try to meet your H and his needs sexually to some higher degree then you are now and commit to it no matter how cheeseless you feel that tunnel is for yourself at the moment ie your feeling like you get reved up with no where to go. Can you decide and commit to showing your H its not all about him you are there also in the bedroom so in time there is cheese in that tunnel. Can you look in yourself and decide what other then sex and your feeling of being pressured and victimized by it is problematic in your relationship. (Again I believe her lies the real issue with you something else has spilled over into sex it is like a backsplash effect and you need to figure out what this is for you to be in a better place in your marriage). Can you take one deep breath and just start now today? If you say yes I suggest you sit down and you write out some goals for yourself short term and long term. And talk to your H and say something like "This is where I feel we we are and I do not feel either of us are happy with that. This is where I would like to be in our relationship. This is what I am willing to do to try to get us there and this is what I need from you to help us get there" example. I am willing to have a date night ie make relationship time that includes sex every sat because I know this is emotionally important to you and our relationship and I respect that but I need for you to respect me and agree not to grab my breast every time I sit down beside you because this makes me unhappy and resentful.
Just examples just my insight and my thoughts and suggestions.I thought I would share with you. If you have any questions about anything I said or feel I just fell off a wagon and bumped my head please feel free to let me know.
If you want you can read my thread you may see some common areas or thoughts or feelings along with others insights that have been posted.
I would link it but hmm don't recall how lol Dancing with my devils. Is the name of my current one my old one is linked and would probably be more insightful with where you are now.
Wow Chrissy, it's like we have lived the same life. Pretty much everything you said I can relate to with my M.
And thanks to everyone who is sharing with me.
I also kept thinking last night after posting. I need a brain transplant, lol. A brain with all the old memories and resentment deleted so we can start again with a clean slate. I think I will start with telling H about how he made me feel all those times and go from there. I know he is absolutely committed to making things work so I'm sure baby steps is better than nothing in his eyes.
Never having any other sexual relationships has perhaps made things more challenging as it feels like the blind leading the blind if you kwim.
We have been together 13 years, he's 33 and I'm 32 (married 6) and honestly, before the kids came along we didn't have many arguments about anything. I guess a lot of things happened in the last 6 years though. From Nov '99 - Sept '03 I had 3 miscarriages and 2 babies so things during that time were turbulent to say the least. After our 1st was born (he's 4 now) I found out that H had a temper and had absolutely no idea about how to control it. He always threatened to break things and often did but never hurt me physically. He was a name caller. This to me was more hurtful than anything. Things can be replaced or fixed, but being called a f****ing bitch, cold fish etc just cuts you to the core - a total lack of respect. I mean, can you really believe it when they say after things have cooled down that 'I didn't mean it, I was angry'?
Geez, I've been blabbering! Sorry!
I will start trying to erase those past hurts from now on and hopefully little by little those loving feelings will return.
Thanks for listening. Hope all is going well with you guys.
Well maybe his anger is one of the things you tell him you need him to work on for you. It took 14 years for me to tell my H I would no longer take anymore of his abuse. He is now going to anger control management classes.
A brain with all the old memories and resentment deleted so we can start again with a clean slate
Gosh if it could be this easy. To bad we have to do it the hard way and forgive and except and let go of all these bad feelings.
Anyhow good luck with the conversation it is a good idea. Your H may get defensive be prepared. Don't let it become a screaming match if he starts getting upset. Just simply tell him you need to tell him how you feel so you can work through it and get past it. If he does not want to listen to how you feel you cannot promise anything will change for either of you. But also remember if he tells you how he feels do not become defensive listen and respect it as how he feels. There are no right or wrong in feelings. We may have been lead to feel the way we do for the wrong reasons but the feeling is not wrong it was the way we percieved something that may have been wrong or misguided.
I agree, it is far more then just about sex and frequency. Willingness to have sex is BARELY a beginning. I know my own wife is willing to have sex because I "need" it. I HATE this. True passion requires BOTH partners to love and desire sex on a roughly equal level. I think what it boils down to (for some people) is that they want to be "Wanted" and not "Needed". How do you express "Want"? You do so with sexual desire.
IAs for H, I guess I just expect him to look after himself, since that's what I have to do. I know, it sounds like a punishment thing, and I guess in a way it is. All the hurt and anguish over this issue has just built up this huge wall.
So what your saying is that he controls his sex life even tho you don't help him out? So if he takes control by finding someone else to have sex with that would be okay with you? It should be because your pushing him that way.
Quote...."getting more & more angry, thoughts like 'If he loved me he wouldn't do this', running through my head."
Don;t you think he has thought like.....IF SHE LOVED ME SHE WOULDN'T be DOING THIS TO ME!!!"
If your not going to address YOUR problem of not having sex with your husband are you willing to release him from his vow to forsake all other because you are not keeping your vow to have and hold, to LOVE, and love is physical too. Just my NSHO.
In reply to afool, I have thought about and actually told my H that it would be just fine with me if he had sex with someone else. Going over the same old thing every day just wore me out to the point where I just didn't care. It would have been a relief.
I know that he has thought the 'if she loved me she wouldn't do this', I hear it constantly. He didn't care when I felt that way, why should I care now that he's finally come to the realisation that our relationship is a mess. We are at a stalemate in the bedroom. To me love isn't bullying or guilting someone into having sex. I would feel better being a prostitute, at least I would be getting money out of it.
Maybe they should stop telling us when we are young that our bodies belong to US and that no one has the right to make us do things that we don't want to do?
Anyway, as I posted before I am trying to let go of these negative feelings. No one can expect them to go away overnight, they took years to develop so it's going to take time to sort through them.
Maybe they should stop telling us when we are young that our bodies belong to US and that no one has the right to make us do things that we don't want to do?
Did someone hold a gun to your head and make you get married? Did you listen to the vows you said when you got married? Your body is yours, and you are correct. No one can tell you what to do with it, but you made a choice to marry your husband, and with that choice, you agreed to be a wife, and to love, honor, and cherish him, and he made the same vows to you. I never understand what is so hard about that. I do not think people actually know what they are saying when they get married.
I am sure your husband is not perfect, I am sure you are not either. None of us are. I have a new thing I do. Whenever I catch myself looking at others who might be doing something idiotic, whether it be driving or at the mall, or at Disneyworld, I make sure and tell myself " We are the same, there is no difference between that person I am looking at and thinking "dumba#s" and myself. So I am not sitting on some high place here judging you. I am the same, and going through some of the same stuff your husband is. I love my wife more than anything in the world. I crave her 24 hours a day. Her touch, her kisses, her love. When I do not get those things, my world is a little darker. The birds do not sing as pretty, the wine does not taste as sweet. This can really affect the way a person acts towards someone they have been telling for a long time "Can you just give me a drink of water", when you are holding an entire pitcher of it. Sorry for the rant....what was I talking about?
God is love, love is blind, Ray Charles is blind......so there.
You're right nightrunner, no one held a gun to our heads when we got married. We just haven't handled things very well - the blind leading the blind thing. It's easy to look back in hindsight and say I shouldn't have done this or I should have done this but once it's done we have to find a way to deal with it and move on. That's what we're all trying to do.
