Quote: Soon, nothing is happening to take me over the top, to make me pop. She is winding down, yet I am trying to climb to the peak. Any minute now, she gives me the look that says, "Are you going to be done soon? You're wearing me out."
Well, I can't speak for all girls but, as for me, once I've had the orgasm sex can become quite uncomfortable. I'm sensitized in that area but it is no longer in a pleasant way plus I start to lose moisture. When I was sexually active it could be VERY PAINFUL to me if sex went on very long after I had orgasmed.
Your wife may experience the same sort of discomfort and this may be reflected in her attitude. I had a girlfriend who had extreme marital problems due to this very issue. Her husband worked his little butt off getting her to that certain point and then he would start focusing on himself. Only problem was, he wanted it to turn into a marathon love making session while she was in terrible pain. She, of course just wanted him to be done, he ended up resentful over her attitude.
I still think you are dealing with a mechanical issue and not a feelings issue. Maybe you should discuss how your wife feels physically...is it uncomfortable for her after she orgasms. If it is the two of you could come up with some creative ways of helping you get what you need out of it also. Cathy
RE: Cathy 47 Well, I can't speak for all girls but, as for me, once I've had the orgasm sex can become quite uncomfortable. I'm sensitized in that area but it is no longer in a pleasant way plus I start to lose moisture. When I was sexually active it could be VERY PAINFUL to me if sex went on very long after I had orgasmed.
Cathy I understand the above situation. I wish more guys took a hint from their lover that ML and sex is different for everyone and different according to each situation. It does bring down one's sence of accomplishments to have a woman say "are you about done" but I know it is not about my ability as a lover as much as it is about her internal sexual state and the mechanics of IC and ML.
I wish every guy could be the woman and the woman feel what guys feel during sex a couple times a year. Then both sexes would have a better understanding of what it is to have sex with their partner. But that only happens in the movies.
I would like to congradulate you on your recent relization. Climax is wonderful yet there are times when it doesn't happen. Men's ejaculation is such a physical, and visual show that no wonder girls are acused of faking it. There are times when you hit a "high" plateau and just can't get over the top. You want to give the "gift of climax" to your partner, but don't loose sight of the closeness and touch that is all around you.
Congrats again on learning that sometimes it just doesn't happen but I love this moment and always will.
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Quote: Recently, I've had some problems finishing the act, or popping.
Curious to what changed? If for years you have been able to pop even though she stated the sex was just for your benifit (which I see as very loving and wanting you to be happy). Why all of a sudden does the burden of you not being able to pop fall on her shoulders? Her behavior did not change and from the above statement you said recently not always so this behavior did not always inhibit you from popping. So what changed for you? Again just a question.
I'll try answer as best as possible w/o going too far back in our R. ML in our M has pretty much been like cooking. I cook most of our meals, unless you call microwaving a frozen dinner cooking. Mrs WM can handle that and other ocasional recipies passed on to her from her Mother. Otherwise, that's my arena. I work 2nd shift, while my W works 1st shift, so I do most of the cooking on the weekends, making extra food for weeknights when I'm away at work. She's fine with my cooking and the division of labor. When I want to try something new in the kitchen, I pull out a cookbook, go on the internet, and research till I'm satisfied I've got what it is that I want to experiment with, as well as the understanding of other variations.
Now back to the bedroom, the same sort of scenarios hold true in the BR. She occasionally initiates, but even when she does, it's up to me to do the "cooking". I hope I haven't lost anyone with my metaphors! Now the metaphor is going really deep. When she initiates, she likes to order up (restaurant analogy) sometimes, other times she will leave it up to me to do the ordering. When I initiate, it's always up to me (her choice, not mine) to order, but within very limited menu items only (again, her choice, not mine). She’s very “vanilla” that way. Most of the time, when we both agree to ML, I’d rather show my love by staying within the menu items that she enjoys rather than going for, let’s say, Szechwan, which would make her uncomfortable. More on this theme some other time; I digress.
What ends up happening is that she gets to lay there and enjoy or not enjoy having the act done to her. She adds a few quick strokes here and there and reciprocates when I kiss her passionately, but that’s all.
Now to answer your question, “What changed?” What changed is that the world kept spinning on its axis and orbiting around the sun, almost 28 times since we got married and more than 53 times since I was born. (I just can’t seem to stop with the metaphors tonight, sorry.) So, I’m older now, and need more intense stimulation to pop.
Just like the cookbooks in the kitchen, I’ve read many books on sex and lovemaking. She has never really wanted to take the time to read any sort of sex books, or watch any sex instructional tapes, etc. I have had these things available for us to share and she just sort of shudders when I suggest we spend some time with them. If I leave them for her to watch on her own, she just ignores them. But the darndest thing happened one weekend morning when I chose to put on an educational DVD, she wanted to watch all the extras…for my benefit or for hers? I don’t really know.
I know that she views her lovemaking skills much the same way that she views her cooking skills. She has other priorities besides learning these skills. After all, I’m a good cook and I’m a good lover. What’s the need to have two good cooks or two good lovers in a relationship?
So, just maybe I’ve reached a point in my life where having the second good lover in the relationship IS IMPORTANT!. But you see from my previous post that popping is not that important to her so she hasn’t realized the need to be an active participant in the BR. One good lover is still getting the job done when she wants to be finished off and the rest of the time, popping is no biggie.
Do you see the communication possibilities here? They’re endless!! But I only get to see her on the weekends when we both need to defrag from our work weeks. Also, both of us are really good at avoidance. Why waste the weekend getting deep into it when we could easily get by just soothing each other?
I think the need for more action from Mrs. WM in the BR is going to bring me to reaching “critical mass” as Schnarch would call it.
Thanks for listening people. A lot of you have posted really good ideas and I do mean to get back to you. It’s all a matter of time and priorities. Even if I don’t reply, don’t think I haven’t listened and tried to relate to your words of wisdom. I take this seriously.
Quote: Devastation is not a good emotion to be shooting for in sexual issues.
Quote:
Mrs.NOP I have questions for you, just as you have questions for me. Can you guide me back to your sitch? Also, are you playing "devil's advocate" here?
I agree with your statement that lovers should not be seeking out "mutual devastation" in their R. I hope I didn't morph your comment too much. I only want my W to understand that she needs to help me along more so that I don't end up being the one who ends up in the devastation pits. Schnarch talks about the sadistic side of Rs and how partners sometimes need that for catharsis. No. I'm not acting sadistic here, wishing my W would feel as bad as I feel. I want her to raise me up out of the pits before I end up feeling bad so no one has to go down there.
Quote: Did you tell your wife how upset you were and did she dismiss your feelings? What is causing you to think she doesn't understand?
Actually, I did not tell her verbally, but I doubt that she did not pick up on my non-verbal signs. I can pick up on her non-verbal signs, after all these years, when she is wondering/hoping if I'm almost done ML, so I can't deny that she is picking up on my non-verbal signs that I'm not happy with the outcome when I don't pop.
Here's some further self-revelation (You're good at getting that out of people, you know.) When I get angry, I mean really angry, it ends up looking to other people as indifference or even aloofness. I withdraw and go to my den, my comforting place. I've had a terriblly embarrassing time expressing anger the few times in my life I have actually done so. The few times I have expressed my anger(or similar emotions) have all backfired into me eating crow, so I don't like to go there. I'm much more of a fact finding kind of guy. To answer your question, no, I didn't tell her how upset I was the times she left me hanging out there trying to climb that peak without her help. I'm much better at making conversation that is pleasent and helping the people around me to feel good.
Quote: Mrs.NOP I have questions for you, just as you have questions for me. Can you guide me back to your sitch? Also, are you playing "devil's advocate" here?
I agree with your statement that lovers should not be seeking out "mutual devastation" in their R. I hope I didn't morph your comment too much. I only want my W to understand that she needs to help me along more so that I don't end up being the one who ends up in the devastation pits. Schnarch talks about the sadistic side of Rs and how partners sometimes need that for catharsis. No. I'm not acting sadistic here, wishing my W would feel as bad as I feel. I want her to raise me up out of the pits before I end up feeling bad so no one has to go down there
Weber, it was just a communication thing. Cathy understood what you were trying to convey better than I. I didn't grok that you were looking for your wife to continue working with you on reaching your climax. I misunderstood and thought that you were unable to climax recently and were looking for her to be as upset as you have been about the recent development.
So, I just missed where you were headed, that's all.
With that being said, I still don't think feelings of devastation are a good thing in bed.
My situation is as the LD wife of a very HD husband in a marriage of almost 30 years. NOP and I had a lot of that nonverbal stuff going on too - it wasn't a pretty sight.
NOP got here several years ago.
Here's his first thread . A little further down the bumpy road thread. Things moved along thread. And then I start posting here.
Quote: Actually, I did not tell her verbally, but I doubt that she did not pick up on my non-verbal signs. I can pick up on her non-verbal signs, after all these years, when she is wondering/hoping if I'm almost done ML, so I can't deny that she is picking up on my non-verbal signs that I'm not happy with the outcome when I don't pop.
This is a major no-no, in my opinion. Partners who are already experiencing problems should not be relying on non-verbal cues. If you consider how badly we can misunderstand outright spoken words, the non-verbals open up another whole can of opportunity to fail to communicate.
I suggest that you tell her that although you are encountering difficulty on occasion, that it is your preference to continue to orgasm. But that you want to take her comfort into consideration. If it's taking a really long time, would you consider completion via a handjob from her? Would your wife be open to that? Is your wife open to changing positions? Is she climaxing during intercourse or getting there via clitoral stimulation prior to intercourse? I would make sure there was plenty of lube nearby in any case and if you detect any vaginal dryness that you grease things up a bit. Another thing to consider is the order of things. While it sounds like many of us go with the "bring wife to orgasm then hubby", I have a friend who does just the opposite. They get warmed up, husband climaxes during intercourse then he manually brings her to orgasm.
This is something that you can deal with - I'm also a member of the occasional "I can climb the hill but can't quite reach the top" brigade. But it is much more easily dealt with if the two of you can be open and communicative about it.
Your two choices aren't withdraw or explode. There's a middle one in there, where you express yourself about the situation to your spouse. You may have to do the withdraw thing first, while you get yourself under control. Think through what you are wanting to convey and then talk to her about it.
Something as simple as (of course only as it applies to your own feelings) "Honey, you've probably noticed that I occasionally encounter difficulty in reaching orgasm. It's very upsetting to me when it takes me longer to achieve it. In fact I find it frightening and something of a blow to my sense of self. I don't want to cause you discomfort, but I do want to ask you to work with me to help me through this. I think if we could XYZ, or would you be open to me asking for a change of positions or ABC when and if it comes up again?"
Hey Web, I second what MrsNOP said. I once nominated her for President so you should know that you are getting some good advice.
My only contribution to your conundrum is to, when you finally bring this up with your wife, speak in clear language. Yes, the stuff that will make her blush and pooh-pooh the conversation and try to rush its conclusion. Do not get caught up in analogies. They will not help your case. She will get lost in the conversation, just as you would if she were talking in code about you doing the dishes more frequently.
Analogy was useful for us, and still is, when trying to convey concepts to him...as in how it feels to be HD, etc.. but not useful when talking about the specific actions I wanted him to take. We'd be talking and he'd say, So I'm the steak and you're the A-1? Or I'm the A-1 and you're the steak? and I knew I'd lost him. LOL
I think the best thing to do is to say to her that your enjoyment vanishes once you get wind of the "I'm finished and bored" attitude from her. Ask for what you want--I'd like to know that you are as enthusiastic about my finish as I am about yours and it would help me if we could incorporate xyz into it, during the times when you finish first. I realize that you are okay with not finishing but I'm not.
Then you ask for a handjob to finish, or more lube, or kissing, or whatever it is that would help.
Understand that she may or may not be agreeable to these suggestions. But do give her the info she needs to make an informed decision. Don't say something vague like, Will you help me when I'm having trouble? and then get mad at her when she does the same old thing. You will have to ask for what you want and be prepared for whatever answer you get.
Good luck and I know it stinks to have to talk shop graphically. It does get easier.
Very well put. I feel the same way. I can have more sex then I currently am, but it is like you say, you need a 2nd lover in the room. My wife too just basically leaves it up to me to do the cooking. Sex is only good when it is between 2 lovers, not a lover and a "Willing Participant" or worse yet, a "Masturbation Aid". It's like these women have no freaking clue as to what the point of sex really is!
Quote: Something as simple as (of course only as it applies to your own feelings) "Honey, you've probably noticed that I occasionally encounter difficulty in reaching orgasm. It's very upsetting to me when it takes me longer to achieve it. In fact I find it frightening and something of a blow to my sense of self. I don't want to cause you discomfort, but I do want to ask you to work with me to help me through this. I think if we could XYZ, or would you be open to me asking for a change of positions or ABC when and if it comes up again?"
Whaddya think? MrsNOP -
Quote: I think the best thing to do is to say to her that your enjoyment vanishes once you get wind of the "I'm finished and bored" attitude from her. Ask for what you want--I'd like to know that you are as enthusiastic about my finish as I am about yours and it would help me if we could incorporate xyz into it, during the times when you finish first. I realize that you are okay with not finishing but I'm not.
Take care, HP
Mrs.NOP and HP:
Thanks for your advice. It's nice to know that there are people at this BB who are as supportive and caring as you two. Any other Presidential aspirations in the near future?
I'm going to respond to your advice and not your questions since the questions seem more rhetorical in nature, like you want me to think about these things more than you want answers from me regarding the sitch. If I have misjudged, and you do, in fact want answers, no problem, just let me know.
The advice both of you have given me is very straightforwad and concise. And most of all, I appreciate it and will do my best to pattern my convo with my W about this topic around your suggestions.
Melding together your ideas along with mine, I think I can turn this into a win-win sitch....She wants to wind things down soon. I want to go until we are both satisfied. The win-win is this: Over the years, there have been a few rare times when she touched me with her hands, while we ML in such a way that it transformed the experience for me from a very genital oriented feeling to a total body type experience. And those touches were so simple. And in almost no time at all I was having the O of my life.
That is the crux of the win-win; if she finds herself getting tired of ML and would only touch me in that certain way in one of those places, XYZ or ABC the experience would come to a mind blowing climax for me in very short order. My win, mind blowing climax; her win, making hubby happy and successful ending to ML.
Neither touch XYZ nor ABC is all that complicated or intimidating for her, but is still mind blowing for me. Additionally, I think I would tell her that I never would have known how wonderfull XYZ or ABC could have felt until she discovered those erogenous zones on my body for herself, thus giving her ML skills an ego boost.
Important points form the Mrs.NOP and HP posts: 1. Discussing her comfort after her O and how she feels at that time when it takes me longer to pop that she was used to. 2. The turnoff for me when she gives me the "Are you almost finished?" look.
Thanks to everyone for your support and ideas.
Looking forward to this "coming" weekend,
WM
PS. Mrs.NOP, thanks for the links to your and NOP's threads. Looking forward to going back and reading them. WM
