Shouldn't I be happy how things are going?

[DownNotOut]

JL, Just wondering how the 'talk' went. I hope that everything is ok.

I was reading your post about the house keeping. My H used to tell me that he didn't marry me for my house-keeping ability. He wasn't kidding, although now I wonder why he ever married me at all.

Anyway, I think your H is using your house-keeping as an excuse. Remember, it's easier for the WAS to cast blame on the LBS. He has to have some reason to leave, so why not blame you, right?! Can't possibly take the blame themselves now, can they?

Your H sounds like mine in the fact that I also believe there is resentment there because I also stayed home with our kids. I also thought it was a decision that we both made, but apparently, it was one that I made alone. Funny, I don't remember a conversation telling me different.

But I do think that they feel alot of pressure being the primary breadwinner. They don't feel it is an equal partnership--they feel like they are doing all the work. But you and I, and any parent who has ever stayed home full time with their children know, that parenting and being a stay-at-home mom is one of the hardest jobs on the planet. And most of the time, so underappreciated.

My H seemed to think that I sat around and ate bon bons all day. I don't know how the elves managed to change all those diapers, do all the laundry, fix all the meals when they were up every four hours feeding a crying baby with colic.

Honestly, my life didn't change much when my H left (except for the amount of money I'm living on.) I'm still doing all the laundry, all the cooking (although it's less than I used to), all the cleaning, mowing the lawn all summer, taking care of three boys just like before---only now I also have a full time job. Now I don't have anyone snoring next to me and there is less hair in the drain.

I'd give anything to hear that snoring again.

Anyway JL, what I am saying is.....your H is making excuses for his actions. Do not allow yourself to feel like you are to blame for what he has decided to do. He is a grown man and responsible for his actions. He has chosen this, and blaming you makes it easier for him. Makes him feel better.

For now, take care of yourself. Stop worrying about what he is doing and why. You cannot control that. You have to let go, detach and live your life for yourself and the kids. Maybe if you go a little dark, he might look back in your direction.

DNO

[JustLearning]

It's been a really long time since I've posted on my thread, I'm actually surprised my thread is even still here!

Most of you won't know me, I've been at this game for close to 4 years now. Wow, it's amazing to learn that time flies when you're not having fun too. I felt that I needed to come back, to get things out of my head. An objective opinion of what's up with my sitch these days.

I have a tendency to write long posts, just giving fair warning. Will try to condense as much as possible.

What I believe to be my H's MLC seems to run in pretty regular cycles. After last summer's fiasco of taking our house off the market, finding out H was still hanging out with OW, my depression hit another low spot. He has never stopped coming around. It went back to once, maybe twice a week. And the one was to watch the kids while I am in school.

By Oct or Nov I'm feeling pretty good again about myself, getting strong and detaching somewhat from H. Friendly, but nothing more. X-mas time comes around, and H starts showing up a bit more. He decides to stay X-mas Eve, again, to watch kids open gifts in morning. But this is the first X-mas he doesn't give me any gifts from him. He takes the kids shopping every year to buy for me. I am hurt but not really too surprised.

X-mas day the plan is to go to my parents new house (they moved the week before Thanksgiving). He seems to waffle about going, then decides to go. He's distant, a bit crabby and I don't particularly want to be around him. We get home close to midnight, he at that point tells me he's going to go.

At that point I had it. Told him next year he can make arrangements to have S9 and make his own dinner, or meal at the local Denny's for all I cared, but I refuse to have a 5th X-mas just like the last 4. I basically told him I was finished with his crap and all that he is doing to me and the boys. I never yelled, was very matter-of-fact and laid out some pretty ugly truths of what he's done and where his life is heading.

All he could do was hang his head and nod in agreement on ocassion. Since then, we have been back on the upswing. He started slowly spending more time with us, staying weekends, etc. About 2 weeks ago, he moved back in...I think.

He's mentioned it on ocassion, I don't say much, I've said it all before. Then one Sunday he showed up, I realized he was staying the night when I saw he'd taken his shoes off (yes, it's a guaranteed indicator ) and asked him about it. He said in a sheepish tone, yes he was going to stay. He said he would bring his stuff in the house in the am when he got ready for work.

The next morning he goes to work, I come downstairs to get S9 ready for school and find H's suitcase and duffel bag both in the living room. The duffel is what he seemed to live out of, the suitcase seemed a bit more permanent. HMMM. Later that day I went to the basement for something and found 2 large garbage bags with clothes, a garment bag stuffed with clothes and a paper grocery bag with jeans in it. Really big HMMMMM.

We still have not talked about his moving back. And he still has not unpacked. Again. Another cycle? Who knows. Will he stay this time? Only God can answer that one.

I still don't trust him. I still don't know what's up with OW. We are putting the house up for sale again. This time I'm moving no matter what. My parents are farther away, I will start a new school in the fall. I have really no reason to stay in this town. H will talk about it a bit if I bring it up, but not much.

I have plans to go abroad to see his family in July, he's decided to go with us. Now doesn't seem to want to talk about that either. The other day the comment was "not sure why you want to go that time of year?" Well, maybe because it's the only time we can all go, meaning me and both my boys?

I see him retreating again, but it doesn't seem as blatent this time. He doesn't seem to go from one extreme to the other. More like luke warm to cool. At this point, I really don't know what to do.

When do I get to start getting answers to all the questions I have? I'm not sure if he's ever going to be completely honest with me, and I'm not sure I can live the rest of my life with that mistrust. Is there some point in the MLC trail that they decide to come clean?

I will try to post more in the next week or so, I have finals coming up and some other obligations to take care of this weekend, but I would love some opinions, if anyone has any. I'll be back soon to fill in more blanks of the past months.

Thanks for reading this far!

JL

[Bowtech]

May you know that your Lord wants to have your spouse set free from
the bondages of sin that they have opened their lives to by being
either tempted or being tested. Our Lord God wants each of us to
have Him first in our lives. Today pray that your spouse's
spiritual eyes that are blinded by the world and Satan will see the
truth of God's good news. May we celebrate our Lord being alive
every day of our lives!

"I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold
of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant
for the people and a light for the Gentiles, to open eyes that
are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the
dungeon those who sit in darkness." Isaiah 42:6-7

[BeingMe]

Hi JL! Just caught up with most of your posts. Wow! It's been such a long, bumpy ride for you, hasn't it? You are one patient lady.

Not sure if I have any advice, except to wonder about setting some boundaries for your WAH? He just moves in without any discussion? Sounds a little cheeky to me.

[JustLearning]

Boy, I really do have a hard time posting on any regular basis. It feels mostly just the same stuff repeated, and after 4 years, it gets old.

Today, though, I needed to get this out and try to find some clarity. I have felt foggy and incredibly lost about what path to choose. These questions have become louder since I started reading Snodderly's thread over in MLC about pursuers and distancers.

Here is the sitch at the moment:

H is still here, which makes it almost 2 months. Although he is gone quite a bit on business. Not even sure I fully believe that. He informed me 2 days ago that he may have the opportunity to go to the Indy 500 (a chance of a lifetime, his words) this weekend. The ticket comes from one of the managers from another department. Of course, it's only for him and a bunch of other guys. This is yet another weekend away for him.

What burns me is that he's all excited, which is fine, except that here we are almost June and he still will not talk to me about our trip abroad. Our tickets (if we can even get any now) we pay with frequent flyer miles which he has to do because they are in his name.

This is just the latest incident. Other things that don't feel right, S9 still asks him in the evenings when he'll be over again. H won't talk to him about the fact that he's basically moved back. But feels more like a lodger, than a H. He still has yet to unpack his things. The suitcase is still sitting in the foyer.

He's about ready to drive me crazy! I don't know if I should basically ignore him, no kisses or hugs, no questions about his day (something he's famous for towards me). I am getting the feeling that if he can't have the basic courtesy of a husband, why should I? I know that is childish, but this is getting so old.

Or do I continue to offer the little things, such as a kiss goodbye, a hug, asking about his day, etc. I've never been one to nag or be controlling, I've always been supportive of his job and his traveling. But I have a hard time with it now because I see him using it as an escape from his personal life.

When we got into the convo about his trip this weekend, we got into a bit of a R talk. His comment (yet again) is that he doesn't think a relationship should take work. It should just "be". I did refrain from responding "maybe that's why you are on your 3rd wife". But I had to bite my tongue hard!

I know he is still in MLC, and not quite sure where he is. It seemed the minute he came back, he changed. We were getting along so well, having fun, laughing. Not 2 days later, he's back to being quiet, not talking about work, not doing anything around the house, etc.

I am at my wits end. How do I proceed? I am always on alert for when the other shoe drops and he leaves again and that is no way of living. I also wonder if he's just waiting for me to graduate and then wash his hands of us? That's the overanalyzing part of my brain that I have to deal with too.

I am living my life the best of my ability, and trying to move forward, but its hard at times to not get sucked back into his drama.

[JustLearning]

Yup...I'm still around, the few of you that may remember me. I rarely post to anyone (which I feel bad about, but never feel that I have the right words) but I do read fairly regularly. I'm here to journal/update/get all the crap off my chest.

The biggest surprise is that H is still here. It will be 5 months the beginning of Sept. Does that mean that things are improving? No, they aren't. We are still almost completely emotionally disconnected. We are roommates/co-parenting. Not much else. We do go places together, I continue to go with him to his races. We do things as a family, but nothing on our own.

The really cool positives that have happened recently:

I graduated with an Associate Degree in Applied Science!!! I am very proud of myself for getting this degree and had a party to celebrate! That was in June.

My sons and I (S12 and S9) went abroad for 2 weeks! We had a great time! During the time we were away, H called me every day but 3 of them, and on those days he texted me. In my opinion that was huge! (not that things have improved since I got back mind you )

Now I am trying to work on my resume to start looking for a job. I am working through my fear that even though I have this degree I have no experience, and haven't worked in 9 years. Trying to build up my self-confidence to get out into the workforce. Knowing it's going to be a huge adjustment for all of us.

I am working on my own life. Trying to improve myself and the way I think about myself. It's a very hard process. Two steps forward 3 steps back.

Not really sure how long H and I can keep up this fake life we are living with each other. He is still in complete denial to me about the OW (which I know a bit more about the sitch, thanks to a former employee of H's). I'm starting to believe that she doesn't know about the R H has had with me. I think he's kept her in the dark about alot of his life. And used work as his cushion between the 2 lives it looks like he was living. Also think they had a falling out. I have found stuff in the basement and garage, which indicate he'd packed ALL his stuff and brought home. Yes, I snooped. H missed only one thing. I found one pic of the two of them together at some party, sitting at a table, posing, all chummy. I found that tonight. I got the shakes for a minute, then heat across the back of my neck. Now I'm over it. I've put it back, don't even feel like telling him I found it. But it's proof that I'm not going crazy.

H is gone until Wed for work (so he says). I still don't trust what he says. Don't know what to do from here. I initiate very little with him. He kisses me every morning goodbye, or if he's going away at any other time. That's the only intimacy we have. He doesn't seem to want any more than that. I have initiated a couple of times, he didn't turn it down. It wasn't anything other than a release, most likely for both of us. I am a passionate, touchy-feely kind of person, and this kind of R is killing me. I want to feel loved, wanted, someone to pet on me. He doesn't touch me in any way, except for an occasional hug that comes with that kiss.

We do not talk about my trip to his home country. He doesn't ask how his family is. Every day that he called he never once asked to talk to them. He is still depressed, just burying himself, still, in his work. Not taking responsibility for his part of this. And I believe the guilt in what he's done to me and the boys is eating him up. I believe he doesn't know how to fix it.

I want to be affectionate with him, but am afraid. I'm tired of the feeling of rejection. We got into it a couple of weeks ago, a R talk, I started it. Basically he is using the excuse that I'm a bad housekeeper and that I don't do anything around the house. That he'll just have to "accept it" and do everything himself. HA!

I pointed out that the house doesn't look any different than it did when he moved out 4 years ago? Who took care of everything during that time? Huh? I told him I was tired of tiptoeing around the elephant (OW) in the living room and that he was going to need to face the mess he's made.

I know I didn't handle it as well as I should have. But I'm tired of ignoring the elephant, tired of the tension that seems to hang between us all the time. Until he can get his head out of his a$$, I mean depression , we won't be able to work on this at all.

I've been acting as if, I've been understanding and helpful. I've gotten angry and let him know what about. I've kept my mouth shut when I shouldn't have. I'm trying to work on getting things done around here so he sees I'm working around the house (not that I never did before. My house is nothing more than lived in. I'm one who picks up throughout the day, without realizing I'm doing it. Less trips up and down the stairs! )

Do I still just leave him to it? Or should I start making a few moves toward him, in small ways? I've done it before and it feels awkward and he seems distant. Do I keep trying or just wait until he comes to me?

I have to start facing facts that my H may never come out of this. I don't know if he's ever going to be able to admit to his mess and his mistakes and want to work on making it up to me.

Well, this is another book, but thanks if you've read this far. Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

From an "oldtimer" who still doesn't feel that she has a handle on her emotional life.

JL

[StevieRay13]

I am a passionate, touchy-feely kind of person, and this kind of R is killing me. I want to feel loved, wanted, someone to pet on me. He doesn't touch me in any way, except for an occasional hug that comes with that kiss.

I know this may sound obvious, but have you told him that physical contact is important to you? Important for you to feel loved?

I know that even if you did tell him that he may not do anything to improve that, because you did say he was depressed, but at least it's worth a shot.

[kml]

Hey there, JL -

I graduated with an Associate Degree in Applied Science!!!

Congratulations!!! Don't worry about your work history - I think, a previous SAHM with a brand new degree will be viewed the same as any new grad. Get yourself some good interview clothes and go on work interviews with confidence - after all, with all that home-management and people skills you've acquired, you've got way more to offer than some 22 year old!

I found that tonight. I got the shakes for a minute, then heat across the back of my neck. Now I'm over it. I've put it back, don't even feel like telling him I found it. But it's proof that I'm not going crazy.

Don't you hate the gaslighting? Your gut tells you one thing, your spouse tells you you're crazy??? Grrrrr!!!

I want to be affectionate with him, but am afraid. I'm tired of the feeling of rejection. We got into it a couple of weeks ago, a R talk, I started it. Basically he is using the excuse that I'm a bad housekeeper and that I don't do anything around the house. That he'll just have to "accept it" and do everything himself. HA!

Oh yeah, the famous "I can't sleep with you because the house isn't spotless" line!!! I've lived that story. Here's my take on it:
- first, of course, remember that the depressed WAS is LOOKING for explanations for why they feel the way they do, and will grasp at straws, no matter how ridiculous. (I always remember the LBS whose spouse claimed he left because she was "too fat" at 5'8" and 126 lbs.!!!!)

- second, though - it may be their reality. My H craves order, comes from an obsessively neat family, and truly cannot sleep well in a messy bedroom. For a long time I never really understood the effect it had on him, because, frankly, in my world that would be RIDICULOUS! But it's not ridiculous in his world. Clutter made him feel unloved and uncared for, and causes him anxiety. With three kids in a small house, we'll never be clutter-free, but it did help when I tried to time my clean-ups for just before H came home - that way he got to see the 15 minutes a day that things were uncluttered!
(If you go to work, you MUST hire a housekeeper to come in once every week or two - one of the best things I ever did for my marriage, although it didn't prevent the bomb.)

- third - depression makes EVERYTHING irritating. It must be a terrible existence. And it's not much better to be on the receiving end of "you walk too heavy, you talk too loud, you're too this, you're not enough that". It wears on you, doesn't it? Try to remember that it's the depression talking, okay?

I initiate very little with him. He kisses me every morning goodbye, or if he's going away at any other time. That's the only intimacy we have. He doesn't seem to want any more than that. I have initiated a couple of times, he didn't turn it down. It wasn't anything other than a release,

Do I still just leave him to it? Or should I start making a few moves toward him, in small ways? I've done it before and it feels awkward and he seems distant. Do I keep trying or just wait until he comes to me?

I guess the answer depends on where you think he is right now. IF you strongly suspect he's back/still with oW - then I would consider a different approach - being mysterious, going out at night, letting him wonder what you might be up to. If, on the other hand, you think he's truly broken off with her, he may just be feeling too much guilt to initiate, and may need to see a flirtatious, happy, cheerful Act As If poster girl. (BTW, waking him up with oral sex in the middle of the night can be a good way to get past that rejection issue - by the time he wakes up, he'll be too far gone to say no ).

If I had to guess, I'd say he's still torn, and telling himself he's only home "for the kids'. Pushing him and having R talks will probably not help - but reclaiming yourself, continuing to GAL, being HAPPY because you don't have to follow him into his depression - can make you a beacon of light he might want to follow.

(Or - you could toss him out on his keester and find a young studmuffin to keep you satisfied - your call, girlfriend )
Ellie

[DownNotOut]

JL---Congrats on the degree!! I know it was hard work, but worth it.

As for you H--I really don't know what to tell you. I mean, you know what a great job I did trying to win my X back--NOT!!!! Can't really give advice on that one, because I honestly don't know what works on these walkaways. They can't be honest about their feelings, or just don't understand them themselves. We just never seem to know where we stand.

I think my X had issues with the housekeeping too. He always said he didn't marry me for my housekeeping ability---and that had to be the truth because I have none. I am a total slob. Never have figured out why he actually married me.

Of course, the bimbo he's living with now is a total neat-nick. She's also a needy whiner from what I have heard--so I think that would wear thin after a while. I'm definitely not a woman who expects a man to save me from anything that moves. Frankly, I'd much rather be me that her. Even if she does have the man that was my H. His loss right.

But, I have wandered from the subject. Are you seeing a counselor? I think that the acting as if and GAL is a good idea. I also think maybe some good healthy flirting might be in order. Don't expect sex---just act like he's a man that you find attractive (as I am sure you still do). Chit chatting about other things besides your R---keeping things light as you can. A look--a playful touch on the arm or back. I know that you know how to flirt. Just don't get too heavy with it--keep things light. He has to want to be with you, remember.

I do think that eventually you will both have to deal with the stuff that has happened. You both need that forgiveness and closure to move forward. But I don't think that you can force it. I think that forgiveness will come with the feeling that you can trust him again. That will take time. You also have to be able to let go of the stuff that has happened in the past--but I really don't think that will happen until it is dealt with.

Maybe it's time to read DR--the section on infidelity might be helpful.

Anyway, big hugs from one old timer to another.

DNO

[JustLearning]

Hi StevieRay,

Thanks for stopping by and posting. It's funny that you ask about the obvious about telling him about my LL (which I never thought of it that way until recently). I think it was just this past week that when he came to bed (yes, he's been in our bed since he returned) I rolled toward him and starting rubbing his chest and arms for a few minutes. I said "not sure if this bothers you, but I need some physical touch on occasion", continues another minute then stopped. He grunted once, his way of answering but not answering if you know what I mean. He never touched me. Kept his hands up under his head, until a few minutes after I stopped, he rolled away from me and proceeded to fall asleep and snore.

I stopped when I did for 2 reasons. One, I didn't want him to think I was doing it just to get s$x. And two, it gets emotionally painful when he doesn't reciprocate. The rejection sucks. Maybe I need to try to get past that feeling and do things like that a bit more often.

Talking to him about how I'm feeling or what I would like, I think right now are useless. I think right now it will just put more pressure on him. I know that this journey is still all about him, the rest of us are just "there".

It's funny to talk about his depression. Does anyone have a spouse that you know is dealing with depression, but also know that they are working really hard at disguising it? That's how I see my H. He has closed himself off, within himself, burying emotions he doesn't want to deal with. But can portray a calm, trouble-free person. What I don't ever see though, is true happiness. I don't see a person who likes his life, even when I knew he was seeing OW. He wasn't happy a while before the bomb, hasn't been happy since the bomb and seperation, and isn't happy now. Will he ever figure it out? Who knows. Not sure if I can stick around long enough to find out.