I have wanted to post here for a while but it felt totally disloyal to my husband and our relationship. But finally I decided that for my own sake I have to talk to someone and who better than intelligent, thoughtful people who have been dealing with similar issues. I apologize for being explicit, not sure how to get help without it. I also want you to know that in spite of what I am about to write, I am married to a smart, caring man who has been a very good friend to me over most of my life and is a very good father to our sons and I don't want to demonize him.
I came to this board because I discovered that H has been visiting prostitutes for the last 8-10 years. He claims only 4-5 times, I don't know whether to believe. On a prior thread I said one of our problems is I am vanilla and he likes exotic. Maybe this is the key to the issue but I am not sure if I can change while maintaining my own integrity.
About 6-7 years ago he started suffering from ED. Sex became hellish for me at that point, not because of ED but because of his reaction to it. We would start ML with my going down him, move to intercourse, he would start having problems, pull out and then I would give him an oral again. This would be accompanied by his spanking me. He claimed it was supposed to be erotic for me. While it was not painful, I hated this part. I have seen some of his stash of BDSM magazines and I think he was using these as inspiration. Unfortunately I was raised with a mother who hit me every 4-5 months and I would stand there with an incredible resentment in my heart because I had no option but to take it. I could not see why I had to take this in my marriage. I felt bad for him about ED but avoided sex as much as possible.
In a year or so of these episodes I discovered that he had been in chat rooms and was meeting some women. I blew up and he promised to work on our marriage. This is the first time we talked about ED and spanking stopped, sex became much better -- I think for both of us. While I am quite happy with the quality of our sex life, he seems to want something more. His fantasies about beautiful young women dominated by him have not stopped and suddenly I discovered that he is visiting prostitutes who cater to this. We are on the verge of divorce and he is incredibly remorseful. He is also in a lot of pain and wants to find ways of moving forward. However one of the things he would like me to do is visit BDSM clubs. I find this totally abhorrent. I can easily get turned on by light bondage but looking at the pictures of women trussed up as turkeys in the magazines makes me sick and the idea of setting foot in these clubs is really hard for me to deal with. I have no desire to see anyone else being beaten and the idea of being with him when he stares hungrily at women 25 years younger than me (or any women for that matter) seems incredibly humiliating.
I guess the question is, "Is BDSM really a life style one is born with like sexual orientation?" If so, I think my choices are straight forward. If I discovered I was married to a gay man, I would feel empathy for him, want to make sure he is OK and retains a good relationship with our sons but I would not stay in that marriage. I would like to move forward in my life and hope that I would find another relationship that nurtures me ... or find contentment alone. I feel the same way about BDSM. I have too much self respect (and too much baggage of childhood abuse) to accept this lifestyle. However, are things so black and white? I assume there are gradations to BDSM and there may be things like light bondage that I can live with (and at times, enjoy). But it seems like the tip of the iceberg... once one is sucked into this it might easily escalate and then there is no real intimacy, just illusion. I just don't understand how or why anyone would want to do this!
We do have a sexual and marital counseling appointment set up in July. But meanwhile if you anyone has any ideas or suggestions of reading materials, I would really appreciate it. I also realize that we have many issues including infidelity and disrespect that we need to deal with but I would really appreciate your responses on the issue of BDSM for the moment.
Don't worry about saying what you need to on here...we're all adults and can handle it. We're also aware that whatever you say on here is YOUR POV, your H has his POV too....so we are aware you are working on an issue between you two and we won't assume he's some terrible person.
Ok...IMPOV BDSM (while not for me) is something that if (2) partners are ok with...then it's fine. However, you obviously aren't ok with it. Has he always had a fetish for BDSM? Or is this something that you've noticed him lean towards throughout your M?
The prostitutes are a BIG problem...that is cheating, period! I'm glad to hear that you two have a C session already set up....I truly believe that is going to be necessary for the two of you to work through this. Sexually speaking you two seem to be lightyears apart in style preferences. Not to get too nosy here, but what would be your preference.....more "vanilla" type sex (as he might call it, or are you at all willing to spice things up?
I wonder why he feels he needs to "dominate" any woman. Or...is he the recipient of the domination? I understand that for many participants in BDSM there's trust at play...you must trust your partner really won't physically hurt you (at least not badly)....so there's some mind control at play too.
FWIW...you've come to a good place to get some objective feedback, suggestions, and understanding.
He wants to dominate. Funnily enough he is not a chauvanist in life. He has always been an equal partner in housework, childrearing and many other areas of life and always supportive of my career. He is also a high achieving person in his own right.
Ok...he doesn't have to be a chauvenist to want to feel in "control" which is what he would be as the dominator. It's a mind game, a trust game....make sense? He can be the most wonderful man in the world and still want to feel in complete control, and have that feeling be a turn on for him.
From what I understand, for some people....BDSM can almost give you a "high" if you will from the feeling of power. Have you asked him how long this has been of interest to him?
If you ask him how long...you might also ask him what the appeal of it is for him too. That question might give you more insight.
Also, what is his past like? Prior to your M...are you aware of any unusual activity within his family, abuse, alcoholism etc. If these things existed it doesn't mean it "warped" him or anything like that....but depending on what he experienced...that could lead him toward wanting more control too. Is there anything in your lives (that you can think of) that he might feel out of control over?
His father was addicted to gambling. This is a big issue for him ... he somehow empathizes with his father and compares himself to the father. I am not sure how this plays out. Father was also an expert at leading double life and hiding things from every one -- something H has never wanted to do but has obviously been doing. This is an issue I have decided to explore in C (I really do need help from someone else to explore some of these explosive issues and am afraid to touch them by myself for the fear of making things worse).
He is a very high achieving man but also has incredibly high ambitions and consequently, plenty of failures. He has brought up the fact that his visits to prostitutes occur at at time he is feeling really down or has suffered a set back.
I have also wondered about sexual addiction but I think this is a label we tend to use too easily and I don't feel qualified to make judgment. One more issue I hope C will help us tackle.
Deepblue, There is a good website to start researching sexuality issues at: www.sexuality.org. They have information on all aspects of sexuality with resource listing both online and in print.
Scott
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
Deepblue... I feel your H is addicted...he wants a high from the BDSM and is willing to engage in destructive behavior to get it.
I am not judging his fantasies ( I have posted before about my own) ...it's the lies, secrecy and lack of respect he is showing himself and you by not addressing his needs in a responsible way.
I have learned that what makes a relationship work is self-assertion and boundaries. Even if your H were in a BDSM relationsip, desires and limits would need to be discussed. Your H was out of control and self-absorbed...I hope in counseling he can begin to discuss his feelings more openly and work on something real with you.
[QUOTE]I guess the question is, "Is BDSM really a life style one is born with like sexual orientation?" If so, I think my choices are straight forward. If I discovered I was married to a gay man, I would feel empathy for him, want to make sure he is OK and retains a good relationship with our sons but I would not stay in that marriage. I would like to move forward in my life and hope that I would find another relationship that nurtures me ... or find contentment alone. I feel the same way about BDSM. I have too much self respect (and too much baggage of childhood abuse) to accept this lifestyle. However, are things so black and white? I assume there are gradations to BDSM and there may be things like light bondage that I can live with (and at times, enjoy).[/QUOTE]
THIS is an EXCELLENT question. I've often wondered, myself, because of my OWN interest in bondage, non-consentual sex and other kinds of things that I object to "morally," and "intellectually," but that turn me on, anyway. I've often thought about whether or not it's predisposition, conditioning, something deeply psychological.
I think, personally, that homosexuality, pedophilia, BDSM -- even something like being attracted to "redheads," or something are all conditioned. Deeply conditioned, and, depending on to what extent -- may or may not be something that the person can change.
I believe in "narratives." It's kind of a postmodern philosophy thing -- but I believe that some people can change their narrative -- and I have done my best to change mine, to not be turned on to that which I have moral objections to (if I wasn't clear enough, before -- it's the fantasy of being raped).
I think, however, one has to be very intelligent, very self-realized, and also incredibly open minded, and "non-constructed," to change one's narrative, consciously. Plus, one would have to want to.
Your husband may have some of those limitations. Depending on how long he's been fantasizing about this stuff -- obsessing, maybe -- will determine the "footprint" that it's left on his brain. I'm afraid that the pornography industry, as well as power narratives in our public consciousness have hooked their claws into too many people -- and, it may be the point of no return for your husband.
You should, however, NOT have to cow-tow to his whimsy -- particularly if you have a painful history of abuse. I know that I've had my "dirty laundry" aired in my first post, and that the obvious question, for me, is "why do you stay." I have to say that if I found out that my husband was having sex with hookers, there's no way I could possibly stay.
That, said, however - I'm still speaking from a point of theory. One doesn't know what might happen.
It kills me, though, that there are all of these people, including ourselves, who are living through these painful relationships. In my opinion, it's all society -- repression, Darwinism, fear of equality -- it's too bad, really.
