The TV volume, who takes the kids, the karate class issue, the "controlling" statements, his physical reactions... these and others yet to come are all manifestations of what really ails him. They are like fissures denoting something underneath causing them. They are not separate issues.
What really ails him are some underlying issues and fears.
And the dynamics between you two aren't working too well. They need changing.
That's where you need to go with this.
What tools do you have to get there and do the work?
Marriage counseling. DBing. Reading "After The Affair" by Janis Spring for some insight?
If you can't do this by yourself, heatherg, call in the professional help. Many times, it's very difficult to reconcile solely on one's own devices.
Quote: The TV volume, who takes the kids, the karate class issue, the "controlling" statements, his physical reactions... these and others yet to come are all manifestations of what really ails him
The obvious answer would be that my A is what ails him. But H has had control issues since the day we got together. But I was 17 and had no self esteem whatsoever and quite frankly needed some "discipline" in my life. At the time, we filled each others' needs. But as I developed into my own person, the control thing hasn't worked so well. Right down to the physical reactions~this is nothing I haven't seen before. It's been many years, but I've definitely seen it before. So, my point in saying this is that I'm afraid that I can do all the changing I want but it's not going to matter. H has to face these issues on his own. The alchohol problem probably ties in pretty nicely with whatever ails him as well. While I don't tell myself that I have nothing to do with what ails him b/c I'm sure our M is a pretty big factor, I do not blame myself or the A entirely. So the question is, if he hasn't faced these issues in the 13 years we've been together, will he ever? Or maybe ha had it under control for a good many years and the A has made the "old H" resurface? That could be. So, bottom line, H has always had control issues, but now you throw in a justified lack of trust and things have gone to hell in a handbasket.
You're right about the karate class. It isn't about the class. He mentioned during a conversation about something else, a R conversation it must have been, that he suspects everything I do, he suspects karate, i.e. that I'm seeing someone there. But when we argue about it, he tries any line from I'm a bad mother for not spending enough time with my kids to he has lawn work to do in order to get me to stay home. But on that one occasion, he did admit what we all already suspected. He's afraid I'm cheating on him.
Quote: Marriage counseling. DBing. Reading "After The Affair" by Janis Spring for some insight?
H will not see a counselor, but I am. Second counselor, first one was not offering any insight into my situation at all, seemed to agree that I should leave. I really want someone to talk me out of the idea of leaving, so I switched counselors. This one started out pretty good, but today she suggested that I schedule a domestic abuse consultation with the Samaritan House. I was shocked. I had never thought about the things that H does as abuse, domestic violence is about hitting. She says I am undergoing emotional abuse and she said to look at my body language and listen to me talk, she said I look beat down, humiliated at times and fearful. This is all quite a shock to me and mostly I had nothing to say. She got out a paper that lists emotionally abusive behavior and my H is characterized by many of the things listed. I do some of those things too though, like call names. I am famous for a@@hole or whatever else strikes my fancy at the time (yes it's on my goal list). I'm not sure what to make of her suggestion, it troubles me to think about it because I feel like I surely must be giving everyone the wrong impression. I'm a strong, educated woman, how can I be that and be abused at the same time??? Anyway, she says I don't have to claim abuse, I can simply get help for dealing with his type of personality. I have not read "After the Affair" although I have seen it recommended before. I will take a look at it on Amazon tomorrow, although I have to admit I don't much feel like working on my M. I'd rather be looking for houses, but I will take a look at it.
Quote: If you can't do this by yourself, heatherg, call in the professional help. Many times, it's very difficult to reconcile solely on one's own devices.
Who are the professionals??
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
I'm feeling very hopeless, at the end of the work day I dread going home. I'm so excited to see my kids, but being at home is difficult for me these days. Yesterday when I came home from work, H was parked in my parking space in the driveway, which is the space closest to the door. I've always parked there b/c it is easier to get the kids in and out of the car. This appears to be H's way of solidifying the fact that he will be taking the kids from now on. I fear that he's trying to take my kids away from me. I know that's impossible and that my kids are always going to love me regardless of who takes them to daycare, but I don't think there's a greater fear than that of a parent afraid of losing their child. I wonder if I'm just being paranoid. If H asks the kids who they would rather go with and they say Daddy, then do I have any solid grounds to feel controlled by H? The kids are making the choice right? Maybe I just need to look at this as a mini-vacation. The kids have chosen to go to daycare with their dad from now on and I get to sleep in an extra hour in the morning. But that's a lie. That's not how I feel. I can try to weave a different story to make myself feel different, but the story flops every time. Am I making myself a victim?? I always feel like I'm losing my mind. To do this or that, feel this way or that, look at things through my eyes or his eyes, heart vs head.....I'm at a loss. I've never felt so utterly hopeless, that there was something I tried so hard to do but just couldn't. I've always been a doer. A right now kind of doer, I never procrastinate. This situation tests every limit I can think of. I feel like I'm trying to control my pain reaction while I'm standing in the middle of a fire. And, ok, if you haven't guessed already, I'm starting to see in myself that I am highly emotional. My hormone test results should be in next week and I'm quite curious to see if my feelings are really my feelings or if something is out of whack. Some people will tell you to give yourself permission to feel the emotions you feel. You have a right be hurt, angry, whatever. I guess the key is the way you process those emotions and whether or not you allow yourself to ACT on them? There must be a difference between being hurt/angry and acting hurt/angry? God, you'd think I was born yesterday. See, if I listen to myself and actually do what I think I should do, I would be living in a little home paying rent out the ying but loving my freedom. Not freedom to be single, freedom to think and BE and be allowed to be with my children in an unrestricted manner. I would be retaining primary custody of my children and moving on with my life. Everything in me tells me that I have to get out of the fire and give H space and time to decide what he wants. But I can't make myself move. I'm terrified. I argue with myself. I ask people for endless advice, as though their opinion has more validity than my own. Being on my own isn't what I want, and people on this BB have told me if it's not what I want then don't do it. But neither is the way I'm living what I want. Does that make any sense at ALL????? Am I a spoiled brat who cannot live with the consequences of her actions? I have a devils advocate inside of me that won't quit.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
heatherg. Your post sounds like emotions running wild in overdrive.
If H is taking the kids to day care let him have the good spot. Where you park the car is not a symbol of your status in or out of the home. Get the extra sleep.
Maybe in a couple of weeks, say how much you needed the sleep and how helpful the extra hour of rest was. Offer to trade off, where you take the kids to day care. Try to think partnership instead of competition.
In general you need to put the brakes on what you "think" is going bad. Some things are bad, but please slow down. It does sound like you could use a third party to mediate or to talk camly with, as to what is going on in the R before you both make things worse.
Can you go to counseling? agree to disagree? or some how, to see the others point of view without making them out to be the bad guy?
I agree that a third party needs to come in on this situation. That husband would ask small children which parent they want to live with and that the both of you would carry on with all that high drama in front of them of your "crazy morning" was just that-crazy. Adults/parents need to make the world a safe place for the kids and it sounds like home isn't a safe/nurturing place for kids right now. And you cannot change him, and you already know that. But you can look at yourself and your behavior and work on that. You wanted him to take the kids to day care. He is doing it. And you are still upset, maybe more so. I understand what it is like to live with emotional/verbal abuse and I understand what it is like to dish it out. Sometimes you need some help to break the cycle of interaction.
Get some sleep. Let that extra hour be a good thing. Thank him for it every day. Acknowledge the good stuff.
des
Arguing with reality is like trying to teach a cat to bark—hopeless. (Byron Katie)
I know my situation must sound weird. Most parents would love the other parent's help with the children. But you'd have to understand how my H works in order to understand what's really going on. You'd have to see the whole picture. There is no doubt in my mind I'm not reacting to this with a clear head. Emotions are in the driver's seat. I try to assure myself that this is normal, given the circumstances. I have to believe that most people would be a basket case if they were in my position. I know I have to get a grip. I know it must sound like my H is really just being helpful, maybe even trying to take steps in the right direction. But consider this: He's not speaking to me, he will not answer me if I ask him a question. The parking space may not sound like a big deal Lou, but trust me, it is. It goes back to the days when he first kicked me out of my house, he took my key, my parking space and wouldn't allow me to dress or feed or rock my own kids (quite literally he made it clear he was taking care of the things I used to do). I was so afraid of making him angrier that I didn't argue, if he looked at me with hatred, I shrank back. If I try to take my S4 somewhere (like if H is staying home drinking) and I suggest to the kids that we go somewhere, his whole attitude and demeanor changes instantly. He'll engage S4 in a game, whatever and sometimes even when S4 has said he wanted to go, he'll end up not wanting to go. But H initiated a "boy's night out" where he and S4 get to go out alone and spend quality time with one another every single Thurs night. He did not ask me before he put it into practice. I came home one Thurs evening from work and S4 announced to me that him and Daddy were having a boys night out. If I tried that, he would make sure it flopped. He would never "allow" it. I know I'm emotional, I do. But please don't mistake the things I'm telling you for being my "emotional perspective on things". I've been with my H for 13 years, I know what I'm seeing. Maybe because I have such a sharp reaction, that is what makes him so successful with control and manipulation. But there is no doubt that he knows exactly what he's doing.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Hi Des, thanks for stopping by to add some of your thoughts, I appreciate it.
Quote: Get some sleep. Let that extra hour be a good thing. Thank him for it every day.
Maybe I should thank him. That would be a lie because I'm not thankful, but I could try to say it anyway if it would be helpful.
Quote: I agree that a third party needs to come in on this situation
Who are the professionals and "third parties" that have been referred to? I'm pretty open to help, so please be more specific. ~Update~ I got out of work early Friday so I went to pick up the kids and I was going to call H on the way home to let him know I had the kids, but he pulled up at daycare while I was putting them in my car. As soon as they saw Daddy, they wanted to ride in his car. S4 said ha, ha everybody is riding with Daddy. And so, I gave them their blankets, and off I went by myself. I don't know what to make of S4's comment. I've also noticed that S4 will ignore my questions and not appear happy to see me when I come home. My therapist asked me if this is how H behaves. I said yes. Her point was that S4 is mirroring H's behavior toward me. This morning I realized H's clothes were in the dryer and have been since Thurs night (he washes his own clothes). I have four loads of laundry to do, so I asked him if he would take care of this clothes in the dryer so that I could wash some clothes for the kids (I said the kids b/c S4 had no clean shorts to wear today, but I also wanted to get my own clothes laundered today). Some time passed, I don't know how long, maybe an hour maybe less and I asked him the same thing again. He went out to the laundry room and turned the clothes in the dryer on for 55 minutes. To make a long story somewhat shorter, I saw the clothes were dry and he was just getting the wrinkles out so I called from the laundry room, non-threateningly I thought, "since you just need to get the wrinkles out, I'm going to set them on the freezer so that I can get this laundry going". All of a sudden, the laundry room door SLAMMED shut (later realized the door is now broken) and locked. I was locked in the laundry room, thank god there is a window. I said "H, unlock the door". I hear S4 in the kitchen with H asking him something. So I lightly say "daddy, let mommy out of the laundry room" thinking that he will realize our son is once again witnessing another crazy event. He tells S4 something I cannot hear. He says "put my clothes back in the dryer and turn them on". I said "H, they are already dry and you have them on for 55 minutes". H said "I need to get the wrinkles out, that takes like 10 minutes" I said "I had no idea you were only leaving them on for 10 minutes, I'll be happy to put them back". He said "how long does it take to get the wrinkles out moron?" I said "stop calling me names and let me out please" He said "put my clothes back and turn them on" I said I did put them back". He said "I don't hear the dryer on." I said "H, I'm not going to do what you tell me to do just so that I can get out of the laundry room". I refused to turn the dryer back on, even though I admit I should have. I refused because of the way he was trying to force me to do something. This is one of the things I'm trying to convey in my R~coersion does not work with me, so don't do it. I ended up crawling through the window to get out. When I came in through the kitchen, S4 says "mommy, you can't do a sneak attack". I said "I know honey, that was pretty sneaky huh?" and I ruffled his hair. I don't know what he thinks, if he thinks it's a game or if he's scared....I don't know. And I think I made the situation worse by saying "Daddy, let mommy out of the laundry room" because I think it brought the situation right down to S4's level rather than doing what I intended. Again, I am ashamed of my own actions. I was totally surprised by the encounter and wasn't looking to start a fight, honestly... Going back to before I tried to take his clothes out of the dryer, I could have said "I'm feeling impatient that I've asked you twice to take care of your clothes and you finally do, but you turn them on for 55 minutes. I feel this is inconsiderate of you since I've already expressed my desire to get our laundry going today". Because then at that point, he would have revealed that he was only planning to leave them in for 10 minutes even though he had turned them on for 55 and that would have changed my attitude tremendously.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
I've been reeling for two days now because my WAW took a step back, and your H, who you're taking steps toward, wants to torture you. I don't get it.
Anyway, that crosses a line, doesn't it, when you're locked into a room, asking to be let out, and he plays games about it and calls you names?
I don't know exactly what to say, except that if it were me, I think I'd tell him in no uncertain terms that when I need help, either help me, or get the f*ck out you useless piece of sh*t. I think those are the words I would use to get my point across.
I don't think you can allow any more of this. DB doesn't mean not having boundaries. Enough is enough, and I know you feel that way. He has to shape up or ship out, otherwise this is going to go on until one of you seeks a divorce.
I am going to sugguest this and mind you it is just that.
Do as you consuler advised you. There are many reasons I could state for you to do so. But the biggiest if your H tries to take your children and you have this on record the judge will take that into consideration.
Also I know everyone is telling you to read this book and that book not really on the book bandwagon have tons of them. But I recently located a book that you may want to read it is not to help your marriage it is to help you .
The Emotionally Abusive Relationship : How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing
I myself have a simular sitch but I am not intruding on your thread. I have my own. But your H emotional abuse seems to be escalating in to physical abuse and down right torture ie locking someone in a room is illegal as well as immoral. And trying to make a game out of it to your child is only going to encourage that child to join the game this is fun lets lock mommy up.Next time there may not be a window but a box of matches included in the game.
Quote: and your H, who you're taking steps toward, wants to torture you.
I'm afraid that I haven't made it evident that I'm taking steps toward him. I have so much hate inside of me for him and I'm afraid he rarely sees the part of me that is trying to connect with him.
Quote: get the f*ck out you useless piece of sh*t
This is me. This my temper, this is me reacting to H. This is also the reason I always feel guilty in the end. Guilty about what I've done wrong and questioning myself about whether I brought it on myself or fueled the fire. I have a part in every single encounter between us and I am rarely proud of my reactions. Hearing you say it though, as someone that seems level headed, calm/collected and reasonable is a huge relief to me b/c it is sooooo reassuring to know that others would have the same reaction to H as I do. Just knowing that helps me tremendously, to feel like I'm not crazy.
Quote: this is going to go on until one of you seeks a divorce
I'm afraid this is true. My family and friends have said this exact same thing to me, H is never going to change. But when I found DB and this BB, I kept saying all I have to do is change and then hopefully he will too. And family and friends skeptically say, "well, you can try Heather and I hope it works for you, but honestly, I think you're wasting your time". But then the books basically say not to trust your family and your friends because they don't want to see you hurting and will advise you to take what they see as the quickest route out of the pain, which is divorce. I don't know who to turn to quite honestly, to give me an objective opinion. I'm afraid that I'm expecting too much too soon, being a spoiled brat, that I'm delusional, that I'm selfish, I'm afraid it's really all my fault and now I just can't face the facts. Not to mention that I haven't been very successful in changing my reactions to H. Basically, I've been unable to change, so maybe that's the reason nothing is changing??
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
