Quote: saying that my "try again and going back to him" is responding to him as a battered spouse would going back to the abuser.
Got it LostGal. I do it too and many others here try and try. We all try, make some progress but sometimes the core issues don't get resolved.
My comment about GAL was intended to remind you to do things for yourself so you don't burn out. I need to take my own advice BTW. I work on things but make little progress and then feel like quitting. YNWIM? I am just a Tarzan and Jane type of guy. Nothing fancy but have good intentions, so if I say something you dont know how to take, think Tarzan and Jane.
I understand you, LG. I think Tex is a perfect example of what you're saying. His W is not abusing him, but his behavior (not the serial infidelity) is similar to an abused spouse. He's miserably unhappy. So much so that he even divorced his W. But then he went back into the exact same sitch with the exact same W - just exactly like an abused spouse going back to the abuser.
Actually I was thinking that TX's wife is being abused without knowing it because he has cheated on her so many times.
I wonder if abuse has to be intentional... I mean, neglect of a child isn't exactly intentional. In fact, it's the absence of intention when there ought to BE the intention of taking care of the child.
I agree that maliciously withholding affection is abusive. But what about laziness and just letting things slide... is there any abusive element to that?
You know Lil, I think Tex is a real interesting case. I agree that his serial cheating is a form of spousal abuse. But is her constant refusal of any sexual contact also abuse? I'm sure Tex sees it that way.
Tex went back to the same sitch, which is closely analogous to the pattern of a battered spouse returning to the abuser. His W forgave him of his infidelity at the time of the D and took him back, but she didn’t change what he claims to have been the cause of the infidelity and the D. Very interesting… And now that he has confessed to multiple subsequent PAs, the question remains as to whether or not she will take him back again. If she does, will her behavior also mirror the battered spouse returning? She’s not being battered, but she’s been mistreated on an ongoing basis. They’re a really interesting study.
In the 'battered wife syndrom' the wife (or husband) does NOT need to be physically hurt. Emotional battering is what actually causes the syndrom in the first place. If someone is physically hurt, it's pretty easy to see that you need to get out. I've heard many women (myself included ) say 'I wish he'd just hit me, so I'd have an excuse to get out'
The problem is, before the physical hurt has taken place, the spouse has been emotionally abused - told for many years that it's THEIR FAULT that the abusive spouse gets angry, throws things, whatever.
The reason an abused spouse continues to go back is because they honestly believe that if they just found the right words to say, or if they were somehow 'better', everything would work out. They've usually been told over and over by their spouses that they're not good enough, they're stupid, no one else would want them, etc. Then there's the 'Stockholm syndrome' - even the most abusive of spouses usually has at least brief periods of niceness - the 'honeymoon phase'. The abused person hangs to these periods as proof that their abuser really is a nice person, and actually ends up clinging to them even more, becoming unable to see the actual abuse.
If this sounds bizzare - remember, these people CHOSE to be involved with this person. And usually the abuser gives just enough to keep them hanging on.
They feel this way because the abusive spouse wants them to feel this way. The abusive spouse goes out of their way to confuse and control their spouse usually so that they don't have to deal with their own shortcomings.
I would say that Tex's sitch does sound abusive, but he does seem to be willing to recognize and work on his problems. Whether or not it will help in his present M will take a while to see...
If an abusive sitch is going to change, BOTH spouses need to seek individual counseling. The abused partner has self-esteem issues to deal with, at least, often the abused partner starts mirroring some of the tactics of the abuser in order to cope with their situation. It's often very hard for an outsider to figure out which partner is abusive, which the abused...especially in difficult cases, where the abusive partner refuses to recognize what they are doing, and any attempts by their spouse to stand up for themselves or improve the situation are seen as an attack on their world, and they usually start crying 'abuse!!!!'
Quote: They feel this way because the abusive spouse wants them to feel this way. The abusive spouse goes out of their way to confuse and control their spouse usually so that they don't have to deal with their own shortcomings.
ok that fits the bill....
Quote: It's often very hard for an outsider to figure out which partner is abusive, which the abused...especially in difficult cases, where the abusive partner refuses to recognize what they are doing, and any attempts by their spouse to stand up for themselves or improve the situation are seen as an attack on their world, and they usually start crying 'abuse!!!!'
Well I did bring it up! H has issues, and so do I.
Much room for thought...thanks FF and how are you doing?
Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
What the swift mind beholds at every turn.
Edna St. Vincent Millay
I notice you keep bringing up religion. Let me ask you this...is your W as religious as you are? Is she religious at all?
I'm not coming down on you believe it or not...but here's my reasoning for asking. My H is religious (although not devout....he doesn't attend church every weekend, but he has his beliefs). I'm not so religous.....in fact I have a VERY different way of looking at things than my H does. I question many many things.....but my H and I accept each other for who we are and the beliefs we each have, in fact we have some wonderful conversations because of our different perspectives.
Now, lets say my H came to me and said something similar to...."in order to be a good Christian (or whatever religion you choose) wife you have to do xyz"....or a "good Christian wife does xyz for her H". I'd be likely to say...that's nice, but I don't fully buy into that because much has changed in the world and in society since that was written.
Now, I'm not trying to be blasphemous (sp?) or anything....just trying to point out that, just because YOU buy into something....doesn't mean she's going to have the same take on it as you. She may be nothing like me, but I know for me anyway, I'm a woman with a mind of my own....I'm not likely to want to be told (which quoting books & religion sounds like being told to me) how I'm supposed to behave in my M. I want to hear my H tell me what "HE" wants, not what someone else says I should do.
Did that make sense? Does your W have the same belief system as you?
) say 'I wish he'd just hit me, so I'd have an excuse to get out'
Although Cemar probably won't answer it. He never seems to answer anything directly.