From reading the posts of others I share lots in common. If anyone is contemplating infidelity, DON"T DO IT..I speak, unfortunately, as one who knows.
Married 18 years, 2 boys 12 yrs old. Love my family dearly. We were separated 10 years ago for about a year. Then it was me, I walked out with the intent of divorce due to being too immature to realize the difference between something just needing work and something unsalvagable. While away I had an affair. I volunteered this info to my wife. After a year and lots of counseling I returned home out of love for my, then 2 yr old, boys. In time I grew to love my wife again, though we still had our issues.
Advance 10 years. In april of this year I had an affair which started on the net. Got caught, separated (her request) and now she is wanting divorce.
I am genuinely remorseful, attending counseling, and trying to work it out. She has a great deal of -- understandably--anger but we are civil. I have the kids regularly, though they reside with her. I go to the house regularly to help with chorse and keep the place up, etc.
We can point fingers and accuse, but in a nutshell, the relationship grew apart because I didn't get what I expected and, in turn, withheld the emotional support she desired, which in turn shut her down to give me what I desired...vicious circle. Got to the point I began to mentally wander...met someone who showered me with praise and adoration and attention...next thing I knew I was hooked and had to meet this person.
Unfortunately I think I've broken the camel's back this time. I hate it, I am miserable, I'm dying inside. I do not want to divorce, I want another chance to apply all that I've learned. I would do anything to reconcile. I've been reading lots of books on investing in communication and marriage and have seen lots of changes in the way I view things. In some ways it's like when you were a kid, got new tennis shoes and were dying to try them out but it was raining outside....I want so badly to unleash all my love onto her and care and all, but that is, for now, not to be.
I suppose if nothing else, I've grown as a man, and if there is a divorce I'll know how to make it work the next time around.
I am sorry for what you are going through.. as someone whose H cheated once.. we put it back and he cheated again and we are divorcing.. I can tell you that you wife is in a lot of pain.. she probably feels like she swallowed a lot of hurt and pain to make things work.. invested a lot of time and perhaps changed things years ago when you came back.. out of her desire to make things work and you have thrown it all back at her! Now the fact that you want to reconcile is good.. but her problem is... how can she trust that.. she gave you a chance and you went and did the same thing all over... all of her friends and family that knew about the first time and probably telling her to never trust you again! All I can say is if you do want your family back do not give up hope... some people put it back together after divorce! Just be decent to her through this process and be good to those kids! A tip on dealing with custody arrangements.. ask your W what she thinks will work and discuss it with her.. do not get mad if she does not think the same way you do! Ask her what would help her... and try and do it.. don't assume that you know what she will find helpful..obviously you have a communication problem and you do not know.. so talk.. ask! In any event good luck to you and your family.. this will be a very difficult time for you all! maybe you can help me to understand my H... He had an affair while I was pregnant with our first child.. he told me.. I love you but I am not in love with you.. the standard stuff we all seem to have heard! We went to counseling (He was not admitting to the affair at this point), we separated for approx 6 months and he did admit to the affair finally... we did reconcile and were together for 5 years during which we had another child and I thought we were closer than ever (until the last year or so).. my one condition when he came back was that if he ever ever felt that he was tempted to go back to his OW and/or wa attracted to any other woman.. in a serious way.. if he was finding himself tempted... that he would tell me and that we would get immediate help from a counselor of some type... I told him I would work with him through any problem as long as he told me about it and gave us a chance to work on it... turns out he had remained friends with his OW and never really gave it up.. and he left 5 years latter giving me one weeks notice to be with the same woman... this has been very painful to me... here is my question, when I made the one condition I had emphasized its importance... I never wanted to go throw the same pain again.. and I wanted a chance to head it off if he was tempted.. I believe in marriage and I think children are the only sufferers of a divorce... so I wanted that chance... so tell me, why not tell me.. heh I have seen so and so alot lately.. just as frineds.. but I am very tempted to be with her again... lets go get help? That is what I do not understand.. why not give us a fair chance? I understand that I was not a perfect wife.. that I gave a lot of my time and energy to the kids and not to him...ther are many ways that I probably let him down... but what I am angry about is that he did not tell me what was going on... you talked about the vicous circle.. you are right.. we each have done things to each other in relationships... who starts it is often difficult to determine... but when he already had one concrete example of the pain and hell caused.. why go down the same path again.. why not open up his mouth and say.. hey.. I don't understand what is going on.. but I am feeling bad.. I am feeling attracted to someone else.. I am having those divorce thoughts again... let's go talk to someone because what we are doing is just not working? That is where I disconnect with men and women who have affairs and point to their needs not being met as the reason... you know what, your spouses needs weren't being met either and he/she didn't have an affair as a way of dealing with it...I agree that needs not being met is a major reason for unhappiness in a marriage and in divorce... Why complicate things with an affair...? Adding a third party just makes it messy and nasty...in one cite I was reading an analogy was made to the emotional recovery for the victim of infidelity (the non adulterer) is similar to the recovery (emotionally) of a rape victim... I think the analogy was to the sense of betrayal.... reading that gave me an understanding of why I felt soooo bad! But it is hard to deal with. You have two boys who it sounds you love very much...how is all of this effecting them?
Nikki, thanks you for sharing some of your thoughts. I too am sorry to hear of your situation. You related to me a lot of what my wife is feeling, and I think the more I hear it, it crystallizes more and more for me. Through the entire process I have not experienced nor expressed any anger or discontent toward her in any way. The only anger I’ve had is toward myself.
Your question is a good one. I cannot write on behalf of all men, nor your husband, but I think I’m normal enough and thus can represent the thinking of a good portion of my gender. I think the answer points up an essential difference between men and women. Men are largely greedy, selfish and unexpressive (that, my friend, is the recipe for making a garden variety male). It’s not our nature to unpack our heart for anyone and let them know how we feel. This only comes when the pot has simmered for some time and is ready to boil over. Moreover, we think that offering sensitive information may lead to a degree of conflict at worst, and more discussion at best, so let’s just keep quiet and deal with it ourselves. This is something we learned from our fathers, who in turn learned it from theirs. Add to this the prospect of maybe being able to get away with a brief adulterous encounter (let’s call it what it is), blaming the “need” for the encounter on the wife who is not “meeting my needs”, (thus justifying our actions in our own mind) and you have the makings for a broken marriage. I think too, in a situation where there was prior intimacy there exists a level of “comfort” that lends itself to further encounters with that person.
I’ve come to understand that seeking out another woman is not so much due to my discontentment with my wife as it is discontentment with myself. Now, in order to spare myself some guilt, I blame it upon my wife’s lack of attention. But guilt must fall at my own feet as the originator of the issue. I think a lot of men experience this same thing only they find different “outlets” for alleviating their discontentment with themselves…e.g. pour themselves into their jobs, alcohol, drugs, food, exercise, ad nausium. Anything taken to excess in an attempt to squelch the inner battle that rages on the personal front. It’s almost like a drug (though I’ve never done drugs), once the mind determines what it needs, that desire becomes all controlling…the point around which the rest of our world revolves. The greater the internal conflict and discontentment, the greater the pursuit of the object which we believe will make us “happy and content”.
All of this to say, it sounds like your husband had personal issues and set his mind on the false hope that another woman would alleviate those internal issues. You can be certain of this though, Nikki, he, of all people, is keenly aware that the satisfaction from his adultery was only fleeting and temporal and did NOT do anything to remedy his personal conflicts.
Don’t know if this made sense, but hopefully there was something that helps to better understand.
Thanks for your insight. Of course my H is still in love with this woman and saying he will marry her. I think this is because to do otherwise would be an admission that he made a mistake. however, all of our friends and his own family think he is nuts.. they have all met the girl friend and everyone is predicting that if he does marry her.. that they will break up (she is actually 10 years older than he and she is already twice divorced herself with two teen daughters).. they are a recipe for a future divorce as they have so many sources of conflict between them.. they will have the blended family conflicts, the age differences, her kids are teens, mine are 6 and 4, H is asaian and she is caucasion...it is a recipe for disaster... and H, even before he decided he was in love with her, had had other adulterous relationships.. so, I believe that given time it will happen again because he has not looked internally to himself to determine what has caused this.. to him it was a simple case of he was with the wrong woman (we were together since 1982).. if he were with the right woman afterall he wouldn't be tempted. (He says he knows he did something wrong.. but then he can not quite accept the responsibility.. I find it sometimes ironic to listen to him on the subject). Anyway.. I appreciate the insight... I would suggest that your wife is in deep pain right now... she put herself out on a limb in taking you back the first time and the fact that she did.. when many woman wouldn't reflects her level of committment to your marriage. May I suggest that you both get into individual therapy.. I would make sure that it is a pro marriage type of person first...your wife does need to work through her pain.. and you need to work through what is causing you to risk everything for temporary gratification... and by the way.. that is probably a big source of your wife's anger... I know I just did not understand why my h was willing to disrupt.. or risk disrupting our lives and that of our children for another woman.. I mean where does the simple concept of loyalty come in.. shoot, maybe i can take care of myself.. but he risked the kids stability too.. nothing makes a woman madder than if her children's stability is disrupted! And let me tell you separation and divorce will totally change the direction of their lives.. you and your wife will hopefully work out a good arrangement and work together on kid issues.. but do not count on it.. with separation comes the freedom to stick to your guns on issues that previously either one of you might have been more accomodating on.. afterall why should i accomodate your opinion anymore.. you are no longer my H? Those types of conflicts will increas... you will each be listening more and more to others for advise instead of relying on each other for parenting advise and decisions and that will just lead to more conflict.. it will not be easy! In any event.. it does sound like you realize the enormity of the consequences and I think that you need to back up a little.. allow her time to grieve and be angry.. she is entitled.. work on yourself.. encourage her to do the same and you may both grow in a positive way from this experience....
Sorry to bust in on the thread. I have a question here. I know my W is having an affair, she filed for divorce, and is lying left and right. She does not think I know, should I bring this out into the light. I feel in some respects that if it is out then at least it is no longer a secrete, she has to take responsibility.
Her parents are very close to me and don't understand her actions. They don't know but wonder why they can never get ahold of her. I am angry, hurt, in disbelief that the woman I married who despised such situations is in fact doing that.
Hello, no worries about jumping in the thread. I'm genuinely sorry to hear of your situation. My own opinion is that you need to bring this knowledge to her attention, regardless of what you choose to do with the relationship. I mean, if you want to continue with her, it must be dealt with. If you choose to move on, it will serve as the basis for the move. Your choice will also have an influence, I would think, on how you approach her with it.
I would also suggest, if you don't have absolute validation of your hunch, to get it. This can be done in many ways, including a private investigator. It may turn out that your hunch is incorrect. Hiring a PI can give you peace of mind or validation.
The reason I say have your proof before you confront her is obvious. If you don't have it, all she has to do is deny it, and you're back at square one. Moreover, she will be tipped off to what you are thinking and will begin to better cover her tracks.
If you're in the southern Calif. area and decide to go this route, let me know, I can hook you up.
I'm hoping that your hunch is incorrect, and there is a reasonable explanation. However, regardless, it must be addressed. Good luck.
KaneKai Thankyou so much for your insight. I just jumped in this thread today. I've been using the principals of DB'ing for a while now and I am beginning to loose hope. Like you my H had an affair (he doesn't call it that because he was nice enough to leave me before the "friendship" became "intimate")so therefore, he feels he was not doing anything wrong.
Nikki thank you also for putting into words my exact feelings of grief and betrayal.
Mystory goes this way. He left a few months ago. This is the 2nd marriage for both of us. He has 2 boys and I have 2 boys from a previous marriage. My boys' father passed away and they very much count on my H for support - even though he is not legally obligated to them.
He wasn't happy (here is where he waffles) because He is confused and unhappy and it is all him or (depending on when you talk to him) I let him down and I wasn't fun to be around and light and easy to be with and he doesn't need to deal with that when there is the OW who "understands" him. Like I don't after 5 years. He decided that that wasn't the way to go so we spent alot of time talking and I've been to counseling (not him "he doesn't have any problems") and we worked out a schedule for him to return home. This has been good for my 2 boys especially they are 14 and 17 tough ages to start off with and their dad has only been gone 2 years and they were very close to him. So life is better is this respect.
My problem is one of trust. He still works with the OW she is pursuing him hard and plays mind games with him and I'm not sure if he came back for all the right reasons. I'm beginning to think he got scared of what he would loose. Everytime I think I get this figured out and can move on something comes up and I start doubting again and hurting again and begin feeling like this will happen again when he get "restless". So I keep up my guard and that isn't fair to the marriage either.
Anyway there is so much more to say and words are hard to come by but thanks to both of you for your perspectives.
If your H is sincere about working on the marriage I would make it a condition of that ..that he have no contact with the OW.. if that is not possible a she works with him.. explore a transfer or a new job or even moving to a new state! The analogy is that an affair is like an addiction... you don't expect an alcoholic to work with liquor and remain straight! It is putting your H in constanct temptation to be working with this woman.. Now your H will probably not aagree with you.. feel that you are doubting his word etc... and I can tell you that he is probably sincere in telling you he has broken it off with OW.. the problem is that just like any addicition... it is hard to break the habbit or to overcome the urge to have pleasure... so you could put it to him in such a way that you make it clear that you do not doubt his word.. just that you will feel better if the temptation is not always in front of him.. perhaps that will hit him better.... good luck and I hope it works out!
Infidelity sucks, no matter what kind of rationalization you make. So much to lose, so little to gain. My H decided to quit counseling and give up hope for us reconciling so he wouldn't feel guilty about starting a PA (It was most likely an EA and he decided he'd rather bonk her than try to make it work with me.) He feels emotionally divorce so why worry about the legal papers? Kanekai (from da islands?) : it seems like you are truly sorry for your affair. And you recogize your W is in great pain, feeling betrayed again, feeling hopeless of ever trusting you for anything again. Affairs can certainly lead to divorce. But they don't have to. Read Michele's new book, chapter on affairs. IF you are willing to answer ALL her questions, no matter how often, how repetitive and if you will be patient, patient, patient, I think you have a good chance to win her back. When the time feels right I think you should tell her that you will take out a million dollar insurance policy on yourself, and if you ever stray again, she can kill you and take the money! HA! I heard of a similar deal actually working (the H was way rich and he just escrowed a big bunch of bucks and if W caught him out, it was hers.) On a more serious vein: please do tell your W that you are ashamed, you are in despair over the anguish she has caused you, you were WRONG, that you are sick about it, that there is no excuse. plEASE DO NOT USE THE WORD 'BUT'. Tell her you will wait patiently, give her all the time she needs, do everything you can to seek her forgiveness. Then wait. That's my advice. Would work for me. Take care, gd1
Hi gd1. I'm sorry to hear of your situation...genuinely so.
I had forgotten about this board until I received a note in my email that there was a response to something I posted awhile ago. Thought I would take a minute to post a followup of where things are...as added incentive to all the brilliant men out there thinking they can pull it off and get away with it.
We sat down (wife and I) about 3 weeks ago and amicably divided up the possessions. The divorce papers have been filed...I should be receiving them for my response any day. I will sign them, file my response with the court, then wait 6 months for the finalization by the court.
I have tried everything. I will be the first to admit I was wrong, what I did was horrible. I have learned...unfortunately, too late. I've learned a great deal in the process. Next time around will be diffferent, absolutely different. I regret the act, I despise what I did, and I am, without a doubt, the looser in this event. Best I can do is pick up the pieces, give my heart time to mend, regroup, and move forward. Hopefully someone will be willing to take a chance on a used model, with rebuilt engine, corrections made. Good luck to all.
