Brief review: Me: 37 W: 34 5yr Son Separated since 10/28/04. Signed D Papers 3/24/05 D finalized 5/2/05.
Saw definite improvements in R, babysteps in my sitch, yet D was unavoidable w/ W seemingly needing to finish things to prove herself right.
Positives include: W is Definitely interested or curious, with unsolicited daily contact and increased friendliness. Other positives: No OP for either of us, W in therapy and starting to exercise, stable at work, W commenting about her free weekends to me, and us co-parenting frequently and positively, with both of us keeping S5 as a very high priority. I have bought W out of our house, and have no remaining financial debt to share with her. She's renting from me until August or so.
Negatives: She hasn't yet experienced the fullness of D yet, pulling for loose boundaries that include notable support from me, especially in the area of parening and finances.
This thread will follow my attempts to stay focused on our R and my GAL work, realizing that friendship with W is primary goal. I'm attempting to stay unconditionally loving in a detached manner, focusing on S5 and myself, while I hope that, with God's grace and my and W's hard self-work, that she and I heal enough for us to have a second chance at some point.
I truly look forward to renewing our vows - but only when the time is right.
Yes, the first time I think I've ever been first on a new thread.
Gabriel, sounds like you've got a great attitude. That little piece of paper wasn't so bad was it? I have the same impression as you...the D seems necessary to relieve some of the tension. I percieve it as "if he/she is still this way after divorce then these changes must not have been solely to get me back". You are doing great...I'm glad the coparenting is going well.
My question to you....Do you think it is absolutely necessary to set boundaries and completely cut the cord in terms of supporting your ex-wife? Is continuing to be helpful, loving, and supportive moving you closer to your goals? I know you have to look out for yourself and you definitely can't let your goals at work slide just to appease your ex, but can you juggle otherwise being there for her?
In my sitch...I've signed off on the papers and should have that finalized sometime pretty soon. BUT, nothing has changed in terms of boundaries from the time she first moved out. She can still get into the house and still has the car that should be mine after D. I haven't established any of those boundaries and even when the papers say it's official I'm just not sure I can right away. She hasn't actually had to feel what D will be like. Do you think in our situations that we should? That helping out, supporting, and just being there is detrimental to our chances?
Gabe, come check out my latest and give me your read. Our sitches sound similar and I'm not too far behind you in terms of D.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
My comments, for what it is worth. We have to be better at setting boundaries, I know I was not at first. I believed if I was nice to her, she might reciprocate. Turns out it does not work that way.
In their mind, nothing has changed, they can still come and go as they please and do what they want and we say ok.
Someone on another post made a good comment. Treat this person as if they were someone new you were interested in. You wouldn't let this person come into your house when you weren't there or drive your car or support them.
It seems to me, I know I am guilty of it, we are WAY TOO nice to the WAW, thinking they will see how wonderful and loving and giving and caring we are. But what they see is someone who gives in and does not have confidence in themselves.
I'm sure intially, the WAW will react negatively, I know mine did, but all you can be is consistent and honest with them and yourself.
I've been #2 so often that I am relishing a new number.
Well, that's been the argument/catch-22, hasn't it?
How much do you get involved and be available to the WAS? I wrestle w/ that constantly and I end up feeling damned if I so and damned if I don't. In my sitch, W has been giving me indications that she wants me to help her w/ stuff involving the K's and the house (Martha has given me a Venutian interpretation on this). So, what does a guy do? I can continue being involved by watching the K's at the house, which has seemed to develop positives for the R, and I can help W w/ keeping up w/ the yard, b/c she has asked me to in her Venutian way, or I can say I'm not going to let you walk over me. Early in our S, I would agree that keeping the distance and setting boundaries was necessary b/c my W was acting like a teenager worse than she is now and that any attempt to show improvement would have been viewed as pathetic.
But now, the ice has thawed a bit and W is more friendly. So, I think one has to take the opportunity to put deposits in the love bank. Consistency is the key. W can't dispute the sincerity of my changes if I stick to them and keep the focus on myself. Maybe I'm a patsy. But, I'd rather give acts of unconditional love, expect nothing in return and sleep better b/c I'm loving the guy I'm becoming. I'm loving myself. If that doesn't foster a change of opinion in W, Man, that's okay b/c I'll be better off and someday I'll meet someone who really values the person I am.
As with everything in DB, it all comes back to your own decisions for yourself. It's about making choices for yourself that reflect the person you want to be. I'm choosing to give unconditionally. As NSN says,"What you focus on expands."
Wes, this is a good question. I think Bulldogr has the right take on things:
Quote: I'd rather give acts of unconditional love, expect nothing in return and sleep better b/c I'm loving the guy I'm becoming. I'm loving myself. If that doesn't foster a change of opinion in W, Man, that's okay b/c I'll be better off and someday I'll meet someone who really values the person I am.
I think W does have some growing to do, but I will never leave the woman I love and the mother of my son hanging. She's setting limits when she seems to need to. I'll try to leave it at that. Usually, when I begin to feel hopeless or frustrated, its usually related to me slipping in terms of self-care.
I appreciate all of you chiming on on this, Dogman, Wes, Kevin. Kev, I especially liked your connecting the dots for me b/t the D and the WAS's curiosity/need for consistency in the LBS.
Two days ago, W had said she wanted S5 to be picked up earlier so that he'd have no afterschool care (1 hr earlier). She said yesterday that she had failed to do so due to work stuff. Today, I headed out at the usual time to pick up S5, as I was trying to negotiate s/t difficult with my supervisor. When I was 5 min away from his schook, his teacher called asking when I was planning to pick him up, and W called my cell asking in a huff "What happened? I thought we agreed...?". I responded calmly but pointedly, "Did you pick him up on time yesterday?" When she went on trying to prove my wrongness, I just said, "I've gotta go. Bye." and hung up.
Not sure why, but W has been in a negative funk lately. Its very hard to have a PMA and to keep things light when she's frowning and circling. I imagine that she and MIL are thinking up new 'sins' of mine - likely related to her recent purchases and likely consequential financial shortfalls.
At dropoff today, when she commented about watching S5 equally during his weeks off from school, I said. "As I understand it, you are the primary residence parent. I am more than willing to watch him a bit more that I'm signed up to, but I've committed to work enough to pay for my financial obligations, including to you. I won't be able to do that and watch him half the time." When she pointed out her work pressures as well, I merely validated, saying "I know you are stressed at work, too."
Things are probably going to take a frosty, negative turn for a bit.
I am really puzzled by her negative mood lately. Its the worst it has been in a long time, nearly since the Fall. I'm wondering if she's found me on this BB or if she was in another R that fell thru, or if it is her financial reality that is kicking in.
The only two possible screw-ups related to this were: 1) a short Mother's Day note (not even a card) that included the following that may be seen as pursuing?:
Quote: Know that when I see his face or look into his eyes, I see you. When I think of him, you also are in my thoughts. When he bobs his head in rhythm to music in my truck, I see you in my periphery. When he laughs a certain way, I hear you. When he runs with me on the beach, I see your stride. When I hold his hand as we walk down a street, I feel yours. You allowed God to bless me so by marrying me over nine years ago, and furthered that blessing through the birth of our son.
The second was a brief letter addressed to both of us from one of my aunt's who knew us, stating that all M's have problems, as did hers, and that she hoped we could work things out. I opened it and read it, leaving it for her.
Any comments/whacks/opinions? This post-D DBing is tough, and I imagine that pursuit is that much more dangerous. Anyway, I'd like your input.
Looking at the calendar, it is getting close to her PMS onset was well (hers is a doozy usually), and she did just start a semester. I asked her if everything was okay last night, and she said that she was merely tired.
Beth and Martha and countless others say it all, when they say it is about "them," not us. The WAS is selfish. And you will drive yourself CRAZY trying to figure out what they are thinking or doing or are going to do. You have NO idea.
And yes, I suspect a lot of it has to do with you not giving in to her; something she has probably become familiar with.
She is also angry and you are an easy target for that anger.
Patience, calm and doing what you need to do for you and S5.
Quote: She is also angry and you are an easy target for that anger.
Bruce could not have been more succinct. This is it exactly. She's angry for a myriad of reasons...God only knows them right now. And you are an easy target.
Patience and loving from a distance. That's all you can do right now, my friend. Remember, her crap is not your crap. That's your new mantra!
And fight not to get sucked into the tidal wave when it crashes (have you finished M/V yet???).
"Remember, her crap is not your crap. That's your new mantra!"
I'm borrowing that, please.
I wanted to bring up something I'm sure will spark debate; but we are fortunate enough here to have open and honest discussion I believe benefit everyone.
I've been thinking about unconditional love and boundaries. Letting someone do what they want and setting limits for themselves is not necessarily giving unconditonal love. I love the woman I was with for almost 12 years, we had children together, a past and I thought a future. I told her I always have and always will love her. She says she does not believe this. This is her choice. Did I tell her and show her in the way she needed? Apparently not. But there will always be a place in my heart for her. But this not mean I give her free reign now. I certainly did earlier on and it didn't help the situation or me.
Love is about setting boundaries and limits. I love my children MORE than anything. There is nothing I would not do for them. But they do not do as they please, though some days it seems this way. I set rules and limits and boundaries for them. Just as we do with everyone we deal with in life. We have internal rules with how we deal with coworkers, friends, neighbors, people in traffic. This is for our own sanity more than anything.
My thoughts. Any resemblence to any person living or dead is purely coincidental.
This post-D DBing is tough, and I imagine that pursuit is that much more dangerous. Anyway, I'd like your input. 