You know, I dish out a lot of "talk" on this site. It usually follows the "rules" of my C, Schnarch and some personal experience. Despite having a fairly evolved understanding of everything and thinking I've made good progress, my feelings are still really screwy and I can't put my finger on why. Maybe I've been overlooking something much bigger than marital system components, differentiation, etc...the stuff we strive to fix.
So, here's the $1M question...What do you do if all these "fixes" is making it more clear that you really don't have strong feelings for your spouse?
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Glad you asked that, Dave, and I hope someone has the answer.
In Undefended Love, they talk about how when you "get" that your hostile reactions to your partner's stuff are rooted in the past, you can see your present R clearly. AND you may look at it and decide that you don't want it. Once you unhook the compulsions and make the unconscious stuff conscious... well, then you're CONSCIOUS, aren't you?
It's particularly rotten to have this question on a Friday afternoon, isn't it?
quote: ------------- So, here's the $1M question...What do you do if all these "fixes" is making it more clear that you really don't have strong feelings for your spouse? -------------
Love is a choice. Your feelings will ebb and flow.
Be careful of how much stock you put into believing the latest (fad) info on codependency. Some codependency is not only normal in a marriage, it is also healthy.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
NOP, are you sure you're not confusing codependence with interdependence? Understanding of codependence has evolved beyond where the word is appropriately descriptive. Codependence = immaturity. It's characterized by inappropriate levels of self esteem, lack of boundaries, and other distinctly unhealthy things for adults.
I am referring to co-dependency as defined by Bourne
According to Bourne, "Co-dependency can be defined as the tendency to put others needs before your own. You accommodate to others to such a degree that you tend to discount or ignore your own feelings, desires and basic needs. Your self-esteem depends largely on how well you please, take care of and/or solve problems for someone else (or many others)."
The holes and problems with this are obvious, yet it is adopted as gospel by many.
My point to Dave is that some of the Snarky stuff I have read seems to echo many of Bourne's ideas. So, it was a general caution, not a specific.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Are there times when you do have strong feelings for her?
What is different about those times?
I think we all go through this at times...loving your spouse but not really liking them all that much, or finding much to connect about. I know in my case it has been a tremendous struggle to remain attached to MrHP since he changed so drastically a couple years into our marriage. It's like I was meeting him for the first time and finding a way..developing a way, really...to love this new guy as much as I had loved MrHP, version one.
Anyway, back to my original question: When are some times when you feel really connected to her? What are YOU doing to create and foster the sense of closeness, in a way that is meaningful to her?
I know when I am feeling really confused and ambivalent, it's time for me to pull back a little from working on the marriage and trying to improve it, and take a break.
Do something for yourself, or have some fun with W with no relationship talk. I was just sitting outside with H and I had to fight the urge to bring up some stuff and just enjoy the moment.
I also know that when I feel drained and back off, I start to notice small ways in which my H is coming through for me, which means a lot and gives me energy to move forward. I don't mind doing most of the work but it can't be completely one-sided, not at this point.
In a thread not too long ago someone here was discussing the concept "what does success look like." I don't know if we came to any conclusions, but it helps to think about the progress you have made. You have made some positive steps, and there isn't any clear end point...the journey keeps continuing. Figure out what's missing and try to come up with specific goals...after you take that break.
General post. Does not apply to all genders or spouses. Co-dependency and inter-dependency .
BB and I were co-dependent and inter-dependent. I think she took the negative connotations of co-dependency too far and went to the 'independent woman" image too far in some way while hanging onto the ideas of past generations like men should be the major financial providers. The conflict starts when the H has to be the responsable partner in the M but the W can be more independent.
SD seems to be way ahead of me on the independent thing, alowing your partner to do his/her thing and you do yours. and still respecting the SO. I am not there. I do subscribe to her, and maybe your inter-dependent concept.
I see lots of reasons for the so called womens movements but at the same time it is either over done in some areas or miss used sometimes and marriages suffer.
While in college, some of the mid to late 30ish female students took advantage of the older gender norms when it benefited them and also used the new "equal status" movement's ideas when they wanted a competative edge. It was like the reverse discrimination that was so prevalent at the time.
And then there is ALT Daves question. What if you work on the R to only discover that you two are truely not in love or have differences on core values that you find it difficult to see how either one will ever admire their partner. How far does doing the socital "right thing" or saying SO is a nice person, I am a nice person, carry one in a relationship?
Maybe it's my problem. I don't have friends that spend a lot, are in debt, smoke, drink, go to bars, runaround on their spouse, are super religious, and many other things some people consider exciting. I consider those things foolish and I am uncomfortable being around those activities. So do I stay in a almost 40yr relationship and just suck it up on some things, or do what I want to do and if the M survives good, if it doesn't, be happ anyway.
Right now I choose to work on the M and fix me for what ever happens. I do believe problems follow a person if they are not addressed before an old R ends, so I am giving this R all I have and seeing how far I can take it.
JJ, the smarty pants poster. 1.adj. Pyr·rhic (pir'ik), of, pertaining to, or resembling Pyrrhus, king of Epirus, or his costly victory. 2.n.an ancient Greek warlike dance in which the motions of actual warfare were imitated. –adj.of, pertaining to, or denoting this dance. 3. adj. consisting of two short or unaccented syllables.
