I am so happy that you are going to try and hold it togeher...if you dont you could go crazy! I cant wait to hear about what happens when H comes home...Keep that smile on your face even he he is stand offish. I hope the best for you!
As the subject of this post states, H has made his choice.
H just called about an hour ago. He had already talked with the kids earlier. This call was to speak with me.
H began by saying he has been doing alot of thinking ever since he left for AZ. He was talking about all of the guilt he's going through, and he didn't know what to expect when he got here. H said he didn't know what I was planning on saying to him when he got here. I told H I wasn't "planning" on anything. Then H said, "Well...I know we need to talk, but it's always been so hard for me to say what I want without hurting you." I told H to just tell me what he wanted. He said he didn't see how he could go on living like this, feeling like he ruined my life and vice versa,..............
After hearing everything, I asked, "So...are you telling me that this is what you want?" H said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Are you telling me that you have decided what you want to do?" H said, "I don't know. Tell me what I want." I am so not DBing anymore at this point other than remaining calm. I said to H, "I CANNOT tell you what YOU want, H.....From what you're saying, I think you want to tell me you're leaving but you're afraid to.....Just say it. Just let it out and tell me....Is this what you want, H?" He said, "Yes, that's what I want."
There was much more after that part of the convo, but I'd rather not talk about it. Maybe some other time. Just very hurtful, painful comments H had.
I told H to call me an hour before he gets here so I can be somewhere else. Yes, I told him to get his things out immediately, and since this is what he wants, then he needs to file for D right away. Like I said, I had stopped DBing. I told him to NOT procrastinate with this, and once he is out that door to not expect to come back. He was quiet and had nothing else to add other than he was sorry. I said I was sorry, too. He said he would call before he got here and then we said goodbye.
It's taken me a long time to finish this post. I have been crying off and on since then, but not as nearly intense as in the past. Right now I feel calm yet so numb inside.
I really thought we had a chance, even if it was only a small one. I was willing to try for it. If only he was willing. If only he really wanted.
JVJKB
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
I'm sorry it came to this. I hate cliches but I know what you're going through. It does still sound like he's waffling and wants you to make up his mind for him. Don't let him off the hook that easy. Please keep in mind that you have all of us here for you.
Another goal I would like to achieve is H asking me how MY day went (I'll have to refine this and make it more solution/action-based). Everytime we talk, he never asks me how I'M doing. It's always "WHAT are you doing?"!
Why not treat the question that h asks "What are you doing?" as the question you're hoping he'll ask "How are you doing?"?
I think you're just experiencing a pretty common communication difference (men focus on action, women on feelings, to generalize) and wishing it were different is probably a cheeseless tunnel.
He probably thinks that he's been asking the "right" question all along!
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
JV -- I'm sorry you're having such a hard time right now. It sounds like the conversation with h was extremely painful for both of you.
To be completely honest, I don't feel (from your post) as though h "made his choice". It sounds like the first part of the phone call was very much about his fears about your expectations and his guilt. He didn't seem clear or definitive about what he wanted at all...
Quote:
He was talking about all of the guilt he's going through, and he didn't know what to expect when he got here. H said he didn't know what I was planning on saying to him when he got here. I told H I wasn't "planning" on anything. Then H said, "Well...I know we need to talk, but it's always been so hard for me to say what I want without hurting you." I told H to just tell me what he wanted. He said he didn't see how he could go on living like this, feeling like he ruined my life and vice versa,..............
Quote: After hearing everything, I asked, "So...are you telling me that this is what you want?"
There were at least two (probably many more) possible "solutions" to h's stated dilemma above (didn't know how long he could live like this feeling as though he had ruined your life..)
One was that he could "stop living like this" (which I think is the one you assumed he was gravitating towards) and the other was for both of you to stop feeling/acting as though he had "ruined your life" and vise versa.
Do you see what the latter possibilities means? It's about figuring out a way to forgive each other and move on from here.
Personally, I think that h WAS holding both of those possibilities in his mind....do you?
Quote: I really thought we had a chance, even if it was only a small one. I was willing to try for it. If only he was willing. If only he really wanted.
I think you DO have a chance, JV.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Hi. Thank you all for your concern. I have no one here (home) to really talk to. Only MIL and SIL know about the sitch, but I don't feel that I could manage talking to them about last night's event. I'm glad I found this site. You've all been there for me, and I am very thankful for that.
Quote: To be completely honest, I don't feel (from your post) as though h "made his choice". It sounds like the first part of the phone call was very much about his fears about your expectations and his guilt. He didn't seem clear or definitive about what he wanted at all...
During the convo, H said, "I don't know what everyone expects of me. I don't care now. You can tell them what you want, and they can just all think I'm an a**hole."
H not knowing what's expected of him along with the feeling that he "ruined my life" - I'm only guessing here. I think this may have something to do with past comments made by my mother.
She had told H things about me from when I was an infant and so on. I never was told any of this. I just learned it from H about a year ago. I had reached many milestones very early on. It was such an extraordinary thing that apparently Stanford wanted to study me. My mother was all for it, but my father refused. He didn't want me to become their "guinea pig"...My mother expressed to H that she felt I could have been something really great. She wasn't disappointed with me, but she felt I could have been so much more. She had often told H that she wanted nothing more than to see me and our kids happy......How's that for PRESSURE?
I'm not saying I blame my mom, but H has ALWAYS WORRIED about my parents' image of him. It has always been so important to him to have their "approval". I've always assured him that they love him and think very highly of him. My parents have even told H just how proud they are of him. I've also told him that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. I loved him, saw nothing wrong with him, and however he felt about me, then that's all that really mattered.
H has told me that he felt he ruined my life because "you COULD HAVE been so much more, and I feel like I took that away." He also said he felt I ruined his life by making him a father and a married man when I knew he didn't want any of that.
Quote: There were at least two (probably many more) possible "solutions"....One was that he could "stop living like this" (which I think is the one you assumed he was gravitating towards) and the other was for both of you to stop feeling/acting as though he had "ruined your life" and vise versa....Do you see what the latter possibilities means? It's about figuring out a way to forgive each other and move on from here.
I did tell H last night that the M didn't have to be this way. I told him if we could stop doing what we've been doing to hurt each other then I thought we could have a much better R. One that we BOTH could be happy with. H made the comment again, "If you think I should stay, if you think it's best, then just tell me to stay and I will." I said, "I can't do that. If you want to stay, H, it HAS to be because YOU WANT IT. If you stay and decide to work on the M, it has to be because YOU WANT to try and make it work." Probably not the right thing to say, but I didn't know what else I could've said.
I wanted to say "stay", but I knew I couldn't do that. It's not right. I want him to be here because HE wants to be, not because I told him to. If I did that, he'll just resent me even more, right?
I felt that I had forgiven him. Have I not and I don't realize it? How could I explain to H about trying to forgive each other? Or is it too late now?
Quote: Personally, I think that h WAS holding both of those possibilities in his mind....do you?
I really don't know. H has told me MANY times that if it weren't for the kids, he would have left long ago. Last night, he said, "Don't you remember all the times I was ready to walk out? All the fighting? All the s**t said? This was rocky from the very beginning, and it will never get any better. You don't remember alot, BUT I DO!"
I told him that he seemed to only remember the bad times. He said, "Yeah! There were alot of them." I said, "There were also alot of good times, H." He said, "....I remember them, too."
I told him that he expressed all his feelings about why he is unhappy, so I was going to tell him why I felt I was. I told H, "You stopped spending time with me. Every issue that came up and everyone else in your life had your time. I had none of it. Sure, we went out to gamble on occasion, but that wasn't really time spent together. I've been last on your list for a long time." H said, "You're right...You're right. But that's how it is. That's how my job goes." I wanted to say, "Well, what about when you weren't working? During your time off when there were periods of you having a week or so off?," but I didn't. He was angry and annoyed, I figured nothing I tried to say was going to help.
I was thinking last night about how I told him to call me before he got here so I could leave. I changed my mind for the kids.
I called H this morning after taking them to school. I told him, "I was thinking that you should stay here and visit with the boys for awhile, and I will leave. They haven't seen you in 3 weeks." He said, "I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to tell you to leave your house." I told him that I don't think I would be able to live in this house anymore, so I thought we should sell it. He let out an irritated sigh and said "alright".
There's one thought that keeps running over and over in my head. S9 had Dad, S5 had Dad, but S7mos has not and will not have his daddy here to watch him grow. H has missed so much already. I fear that my boys will not have their father around enough. I'm afraid that H will not make an effort to be a dad as much.
Thanks for listening.
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
J, you're getting caught up in the drama of everything and it's gotten you emotionally exhausted and tired, and on that low of the rollercoaster, you're leading H to make decisions that you may regret later, just as telling him to obtain a divorce.
All this other stuff you're posting is over analytical and the bottom line is, none of it is going to help your situation, but what it will do is keep you obsessed or focused on the drama, and that's not going to help your PMA.
Stop discussing the relationship and stop making decisions for your H. The onus has to be on him to act, not on you to prompt him to act. I am telling you that you have a history of back and forth from what I've read, and the path you're on will not bring you closer to your goals, but does seem to be furthering you from them.
For your own happiness' sake, back off and stop the pattern.
Quote: Stop discussing the relationship and stop making decisions for your H. The onus has to be on him to act, not on you to prompt him to act. I am telling you that you have a history of back and forth from what I've read, and the path you're on will not bring you closer to your goals, but does seem to be furthering you from them.
For your own happiness' sake, back off and stop the pattern.
Let me just add one thing to NY's good advice to you...stop TALKING about how the M can be better and start MAKING it better. Telling h about how it could be and how forgiveness can work, etc, etc, is just an R talk...but ACTIONS (make it better, forgive, be consistent, etc), now those will make a difference!
You don't need h to "agree"...just do it.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Hi. I haven't posted to anyone in ages, but I felt compelled here. I know people say all of the time, "Your sitch is just like mine!"...but, seriously, yours is.
I have been reading your thread from the start. The title caught my eye, and from that first post of yours I knew just what you were going through.
Look at your first post on this thread. It was from March, and you were convinced that it was over and that your H was leaving. Here we are in April, and now he's really leaving... I wonder what May will bring?
I went thru that same mess. My H didn't love me, was leaving. He told me for months that he was leaving, but never did a thing about it. Finally, one night I packed his stuff and said "get out." He did. In less than 2 weeks he was asking to come back.
I would love to say that was the end of it, and that we are living happily ever after. I would have loved for it to be that easy, but it certainly wasn't. The good news is that we are living much more happily than ever before. The bad news? It was a looooong haul. It has required more patience than I ever dreamed I had.
The reason I say your sitch is like mine is not only because of the H that needs to be kicked out of the house to make good on his talk about leaving, but also the fact that your H feels that he ruined your "potential." I left college (a complete academic scholarship)to marry my H, and it took me a long time to go back. My H has never forgiven himself for this, and though it sounds funny, it was a HUGE part of the demise of our relationship.
Your H sounds as if he is carrying a lot of guilt. Seems odd that he would choose to leave his family then, huh? Well, all I can say is that sometimes people think that once they make a mistake (especially if it is the same mistake that a parent made), they decide that that is simply who they are. And, they don't want to keep contaminating others with themselves.
Your H sounds like he has a lot to work out.
Let him.
And trust me here...the fear of someone leaving is far worse than the actual act. You have been fearing it for so long that it has taken on a life of its own. And, you are mourning something that is not necessarily over. On the day my H left, I was relieved. It felt good not to have the idea of it looming over me anymore. It made me get off my butt and get moving on things that I needed to.
I just need you to know that you will get through this. Don't give up on the good ole DBing now. What you say and do now will be HUGE later on.
I wanted so badly to scream at my H for hurting my boys. I didn't. I simply said, "I know how much you love them, and I know that you would not make this decision unless you thought it was for the best." Later, he told me it was things like this that made him able to talk to me and see a future for us.
I am not suggesting you say anything you don't feel. I AM saying to think first before saying anything.
It sure sounds like he is not sure about anything. I know how easy it is to say, "then leave!" I made a rule for myself to NEVER say something that I wasn't prepared to actually experience. Many times in all of this I wanted to say, "you're not happy- move on," but it wasn't what I really wanted. Why make him think that I did want that? No, I didn't pursue either. I just was a person that was there for him when I felt he needed it the most. I figured that if he has an illness I would take care of him, so why would I turn my back when he was going through such a difficult time?
Sorry if this is rambling. I don't really have time to carefully choose what I want to say. But I felt it was important for you to know that I feel deeply what you are going through.
Patience is your friend. Please remember that. And, if he does leave, it is not the end of the world. And it is certainly not over.
