Once again I completely agree with you on this. I believe he needs to point out to her that she cannot expect him to read her mind, I mean...she can't read his.
I said pretty much verbatim the same thing you suggested...to my H at one time. But I think I said something like..."you won't tell me what's going on in your head, you won't tell me how you feel....you expect me to guess. You are willing to let me flounder away, THAT is not a very loving thing to do!"
This of course was in my very fledgling days on this BB. But it did make him stop and think, if even for a moment.
I'm not going to jump on the "it's all about her problems" bandwagon. I think your W is dead on with her observations. I think you do pretend.
Here are some limited suggestions: Don't make jokes when you feel uncomfortable. Resist the urge to come here to diss your W (or get others to do it for you) instead of telling her upfront and IN PERSON how you really feel. Stop trying to find the "right" way to be and how to say things to keep her from finding out about the real you. Stop looking for just the right putdown. All are great ways to prevent emotional intimacy. To keep someone from getting too close.
Seems like whenever your W may have hit a nerve, you come here looking for folks to tell you how wrong she is. And you stay stuck. So turn that upside down. What if she's right?
You've got good impression management skills. I hope your C is good enough to recognize them and get past them. I don't doubt that your W has her own problems. But she's not as good at impression management, so I have lots of hope for her.
But I don't think you really want to hear that your W may have a point. Bring on the "yes, buts...."
Quote: You've got good impression management skills.
This is very insightful. I know because I am also someone with good impression management skills. OTOH, saying someone has good impression management skills is just another way of saying they are wimpy because having good impression management skills is just a subtle way of being a braggart which is an obvious defensive mechanism.
What I might recommend for HD is something I occasionally do myself which is to consider letting yourself be the "bad guy", not because you want to be gracious and allow your wife to be the "good guy" but just because it can be really relaxing to be the "bad guy" for a change. What's the worst that can happen? Everybody will hate you and think you are an evil morally corrupt loser who is unwilling to do the work necessary to preserve the sanctity of your long term romantic relationship and will probably sink ever lower into a wretched pool of seeking only to fulfill his base desires at the expense of all those who touch his life? So what? At least you might get laid for a change.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Okay Doc, you've made at least one good point, and you've missed some targets. The good point that you made: 1. Stop trying to find the "right" way to be and how to say things to keep her from finding out about the real you. Absolutely. I think this is good advice, and it's all about being genuine and honest with myself.
The missed targets: 1. I think you do pretend. Her observation was that, during the MC sessions, I am putting on a performance. If anything, I am more "myself" during the sessions, because I feel safer in that environment than I do in my own house. I am not pretending.
2. Don't make jokes when you feel uncomfortable. I value humor, and realize I sometimes use it as a coping skill. I don't use it to deflect or change the subject. I don't think I overuse it with my W. A lot of my humor comes out here in this forum, because it tends to foster that branch of my creativity.
3. Resist the urge to come here to diss your W (or get others to do it for you) instead of telling her upfront and IN PERSON how you really feel. I don't come here to diss my wife. Rather, I come here for a reality check. For example, when she says that she wants me to share my intimacy, and I have no idea what she means and ask her to give me a clue, and she refuses; I want to be able to come to a third party and say, "am I crazy, but is her request a tad unreasonable?" I come here for validation. I come here for the weird sense of anonymous community. I come here to see how other people's situations are similar and different and worse than or better than mine. And Stop looking for just the right putdown. ?? It's not putdowns that I am looking for. It is approaches. It is statements that might help her understand me. I really don't think I ever have seriously "put down" my W. We often joke back and forth with each other in a teasing way, but I certainly don't think I've ever said anything to her meant to put her down.
4. Seems like whenever your W may have hit a nerve, you come here looking for folks to tell you how wrong she is. And you stay stuck. So turn that upside down. What if she's right? I'm not sure how long you've been a lurker, JL, but I had operated for the first 3 or 4 years of the relationship under the assumption that she was right, and that what she said was gospel. Lately, through the help and guidance provided by books, this board, and trusted friends, I have begun to see that her view of reality is not always accurate, sometimes downright wrong, and that I need to gather strength to show her that her view is not the only one. As I said earlier, I come her for reality checks, and for a shot of courage once in a while, and yes, a place to vent, too. But my goal is not to tear her down and build me up. My goal is to build our current trainwreck of a marriage into something that works for both of us.
5. You've got good impression management skills. I'm not even sure what you mean by this. If you mean I have a gift of making a good impression, and that my wife doesn't, you're just wrong. If you mean something else, please educate me. "Impression management skills" is not a term I've heard before.
Doc, I like your opinions generally, and I think you've definitely got some good points to make, but I think your post was a bit harsh, and a big bit off the mark. But keep 'em coming.
Awww JJ, do you really think it helps to be the bad guy? It just adds to more confusion, self-doubt and misery, IMO.
I have little doubt that HD could go out and easily seduce/get laid to get release, validation, what have you. If he stays the course, however, he is going to learn about self assertion, his personal limits, living life with integrity and becoming a good role model for his kids. Let's try to stay focused here...we are all a stone's throw away from temptation.
I have limited time at the moment. Just some of the thoughts I have in response to your post at this point and without the amount of time I need to really figure out what I want to say. I've read the majority of your posts, the ones that deal with your stuff. There were alot of them so it took me awhile. Yours are some of the more hostile posts I've read. Sometimes you are essentially calling your W names behind her back. There's more but that's all I've got time for.
What's your reaction to the idea of showing your threads to your C? Maybe sharing them with your W?
I'm just one guy here, and Hairdog can certainly stick up for himself (looks like he already has), but I think you're being WAY unfair here, Doc. I've read just about everything Hairdog's ever posted here, and I've NEVER taken his posts as anywhere near a "trashing" of his wife.
If anything, he's been remarkably kind and patient with her, while others have been more of a "I don't know how you held it in," or "I don't know how you put up with her," etc.
We all come here for help and support. I think the key distinction between someone like Hairdog, and someone like CeMar or ME for that matter, is that Hairdog doesn't ask the group anything that he hasn't already had the ba!!s to say to his W, at great risk and pain.
I didn't mean that HD should actually actively go out and be a bad guy, I meant that he should let himself be a bad guy psychologically by admitting to himself and maybe even his wife that sometimes he is just a lazy guy who just wants to get laid and accept all the negative connotations that go along with that. I mean if he were to say to his wife "You are right. I am a really sucky husband and a depraved sex fiend. Why do you stay married to me?" she might have to contemplate her stand on the issue from a different perspective.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Bring on the "yes, buts...." 