W moving back in, trust issues came with her

[tbone]

It has been a long time since I was here. Some of that was because things were good, some is because I thought it was a lost cause. We had our asset division together and I had retained an atty. History: W - 34, H - 34, Met 8/90, Married 8/92, Kids 8/94, 10/97, 3/99, built dream home 2/00, first DB stop 2/02, W moved out 11/04, W moved back in 3/12/05

I pray some old veterans are still here and remember me. Here is the latest. After moving out without any mutual discussion 5 months prior she had a change of heart and decided she loved me again a week ago. She said she realized that she could never replace me and if I was on the market would get picked up in a minute. She caught wind that I was becoming friends with a H.S. friend of hers because she was watching my boys. Totally platonic, she works for a client of mine and our kids are in the same grade. Beautiful woman, smart, true sweetheart, the whole package. Happens to be seperated too. My W all of a sudden wanted to move back in and loved me more than ever. Coincidence, I don't think so. My LF made me realize there were good woman out there that would appreciate me. Brought back my confidence and put a spring in my step.

Was happy yet shocked when my W had her epiphany. The problem is I still don't trust my W. She has been on dating sites as recently as a month ago, keeps her cell phone off at my house and will never say who called or text, has a lot of unaccounted time, etc. Do I believe her that she is "back" and assume this behavior will stop or do I request that all this stops right now? She has been very deceitful in the past and does very little to help the problem. I used monitoring software on our computer to out her activities three years ago. Now she says she needs "privacy". However my cell phone and email are open to her at any time. I use the same password for everything and told her what it was long ago. I am 100% honest with her because I have nothing to hide but she won't return that favor.

I know that I need to trust her to give our M a chance but she refuses to do anything to help in the least. My heart wants to do it but my my brain says I must be crazy. She was even lied to her C. We have the same one and it took physical evidence for the C to believe me. Now the C is totally confused as am I. My W wants to move the big items back on Thursday but I don't think I want her to do that. If she won't make more genuine efforts to be trustworthy I don't want her back. I have lived with her lies for so long and she has wore me down. I can't take it anymore. I want to try but I need honesty from her, 100%, no less. Please give me some input on how to handle this tricky sitch!!!

[tbone]

Did I say something offensive or something? My LF is not even close to an EA. I really want to trust my W but she keeps doing things to question it. I am not kidding that our C is confused on what to do. That is why I turned to the board. Anyone have any advice or similar circumstances?

[sage]

tbone --

I don't think you said anything offensive...a) piecing hasn't been that active since you posted yesterday and b)well, you've posted the mother of all problems, no?

I carry around in my wallet an index card with something that you posted here on the boards...I can't remember if you actually posted it on MY thread or if I just read it on someone else's but it's been with me for quite a while now ...

You said "If you trust too much you could be deceived, if you trust too little, you will be tormented."

(I'm not thrusting these words back at ya...I'm mostly just letting you know that you have a fan )

So, here's my advice -- I hope it comes out coherently ('cause it feels that way in my brain). It sounds to me like you and possibly C are taking the "honesty" burden up for your w...IOW, it seems like you've been putting at least a little effort into trying to prove that she's been lying ... kind of like you're responsible for the honesty for both of you in the R?

Obviously, I'm not sure of the circumstances in that case but what if you just adopted the mantra "I am not responsible for w's honesty"? (I use that one for my own sitch and I also use its close cousin "I am not responsible for h's fidelity").

What that has meant for me is that not only have I eradicated (well, mostly) all opportunities for h to lie to me (meaning, in particular, that I don't query him) but I go out of my way to respect his "privacy". IOW, not only do I no longer complain that I don't know his passwords (while, like you, he knows mine by virtue of the "fact" that I mostly use the same one for everything) but I now go over the top to respect his privacy...stepping out of the room if he has a call, knocking or making lots of noise if I'm coming into a room where the computer is and most importantly, asking him if it's ok if "I'm in here" because when I'm in the room, well, I can see his computer screen.

The net upshot has been that he's been far more open with his "stuff".

Will it last forever? Will he lie to me again? I have no idea. But I do know that I'm not going to be the gatekeeper for his honesty any more. it's not to say that I walk around with blinders on (I don't think I do)...more that I have a mindset that I think alleviates his "you don't trust me" and "I don't have any privacy" issues.

What do you think would happen if you stopped "pulling" at w for more honesty? Do you think she could give more?

Sage

[Jamesjohn]

Hey tbone, my friend! Good to see you again! (except for the circumstances, of course!)

Zing, bang, boom! Sounds like things have been all over the place for you lately! What a ride for you, buddy!

It figures that once you got your confidence back and the spring back into your step, she'd come running back to you. I'd hate to see you lose that, and start back at square one again. What do you think you need to do to keep that momentum going for yourself?

Trust. Is it something that should automatically be given, or is it something that should be earned? Especially if it's something that's been broken in the past?

If she won't make more genuine efforts to be trustworthy I don't want her back.

So, what specific genuine efforts would you like to see, and what, at a minimum, would be "acceptable" for you right now? And most importantly, what would she be willing to give?

This is a tough one, my friend. Things seem to be happening so quick, it's hard not to get caught up in the whirlwind of it all. It's exciting to have the chance to get her back, but it sounds like you're pretty worried about things going back to the way they were, which would take you back to the same place as before. Which I can totally understand, my friend.

Why such the rush? Why this Thursday? What would happen if you delayed the big move for say another week or month or so?

This is JMHO, but I think that I might lean towards the "when in doubt, do nothing" rule. As in being cautious about things going too far, too fast. Which it sounds like your head is leaning towards, too, right?

[Jamesjohn]

Sage, as usual, has some great things for you to think about too, tbone!

Falling in the lines of "too far, too fast", are YOU ready for her to NOT be honest "all of the time"? If a situation comes up where you might have to give her the benefit of the doubt, will you be able to?

IOW, it seems like you've been putting at least a little effort into trying to prove that she's been lying ... kind of like you're responsible for the honesty for both of you in the R?

Yep, gotta agree with this too. The old "what you focus on expands". It sounds like right now, your focus is gonna be on her honesty, and that might take away from placing some of your energy from other places it might be needed.

To make "the move" work, what might YOU, along with her, need to change?

[twilight zone]

I remember you! Not that I could be considered much of a veteran poster. But since nobody else has chimed in (yet), I'll offer my two cents.

I don't think you should be tying yourself in knots trying to trust her. She has given you no reason to do so. I think the onus ought to be on her to demonstrate some trustworthiness.

I'd suggest you ask yourself what you need to be comfortable giving her another chance. When you've carefully thought that out, present it as a non-negotiable demand.

In my case, I made my wife give up her "privacy". All her "privacy" really amounted to in the end was a cloak for her extramarital activities. I made her give up her cell phone and e-mail, and go get counselling. I didn't try to persuade her or argue her into it. I said in effect, "For me to be willing to continue in this marriage, I need you to do X. If you're not willing to do it, that's all right, but I'll be filing for a divorce." Not very DB maybe.

I hope this helps.

[tbone]

Wow! I ask for some veteran opinions and the king and queen come to my rescue. You two rock! I am short on time so here goes.

Sage,

I had actually forgotten exactly how the "trust" quote was phrased. Thank you for that. The fact that you keep it in your wallet absolutely floored me. I live to help others and if that little phrase gets you through some bad days I couldn't be happier. I have done the "don't ask, get told more" routine myself. It works for sure. I have been more demanding lately only because of her recent profession of love and not being able to live without me anymore. If that is real I want some proof that our M will improve if she comes back. Trust is our biggest issue so show me you're trustworthy. No passwords, no mystery cell calls, no shutting down the computer when I show up, etc. Maybe it is all innocent as she claims but it sure doesn't look good. Bottom line, quit "looking" so damn guilty all the time and I won't think you are. Privacy is typically nly needed when there is something to hide. That sure seems reasonable to me. See, I met two great women(again, not EA's, just LF's) while we were seperated. Top shelf all the way. My standards were raised by getting to know them. They showed me that quality people really do exist. We also have a lot of mutual aquaintances and they told me the group we associate with can't understand why a I put up with my W. That was hard to hear. Believe when I say that comment hurt me more for my W's sake than boosted me up. It did get me thinking though. I am honest as the day is long so I feel I earned the same in return. Maybe I am being overly presumptuous. The other key fact is that just prior to her wanting to reconcile I had written her off and was very ready to move on. I called my A to file on her but the A was on vacation. Can you say "things happen for a reason"? I only gave in to the reconciliation because she promised ot follow some boundries. Family church attendence, continued counseling, family projects, family fun nights, consistent "open" communication, scheduled talk time, etc. In my book, if you're in then you need to be fully committed or get out. Can you tell my father was in the military?

Exec summary is this: Thanks for the truth quote, I promise to put that back in my daily routine. It was proven once again that spouses are like cats, don't move the ball of string and they don't care but make them think it's being taken away and they pounce! My W needs to respect and appreciate me because there are women out there that will. I raised my standards of what a M should be and won't back down.

JJ,

Your comment of "when in doubt, do nothing" has saved my tail lately. I am a very proactive person but that was killing me in my M. As soon as I quit chasing, things changed. What I found was I genuinely didn't care if she ever came back. I would be fine. My confidence was way up and will never come down again. The idea that I am a quality and desireable person was very much affirmed while my W was gone. That is a huge reason why she is back. It is sad that it took me making new LF's to finally feel good about myself again. I almost feel guilty that they gave me something my W took away. They have been thanked several times for that. I haven't changed who I am but I sure feel better. You are right JJ, when my confidence came back I almost got knocked down she came back so fast. I think my W feels threatened by my LF. That came out last night. If she won't be honest with me, she should feel threatened. Are you all ready for this little tidbit? My W moved into the apt my LF moved out of when she ended her S. Whoa!!!

I am focusing intensely on making the M work right now. I wanted one more chance with both sides giving their all before we threw away a 15 yr R and we got it. It is possible for the M to get good again if we both work at it. My LF are great and supportive people and wish me much success with the reconciliation. As I have supported their R. The truth is that I will not be taken advantage of or mistreated again. I simply won't be lied to or cheated on again either. FYI, I have never cheated, hit, or abadoned my W, ever. If my W can love me like I love her then we will live happily ever after. If she can not, I will find a woman who will. That belief alone should have a very positive impact on our M. Only time will tell.

The answer to my problem is........

If you trust too much, you could be deceived.
If you trust too little, you will be tormented.

Wow, was that easy!!! Now we'll have to see if I can quit tormenting myself.

[tbone]

Oh boy I wrote such a novel that I missed your post JJ. Valid point. I really like the idea of not trying to verify her honesty. The problem is that I am way too observant. I hunt a lot so my senses are tuned for things that are out of place. Trying to look the other way is pointless for me. Tried it, didn't work. You would have better luck spraying perfume on a skunk and calling it a cat. That is why I went the more direct route of making demands/boundries. It is a fact that I have to focus elsewhere. Supporting her, loving her, respecting her. That last one is not easy either. Why? All the deceit. What is deceit? A form of disrespect. The deceit and things she does because of ehr low self-esteem are killing my respect for her. Yeah, that is a big problem too. She is so focused on her looks that she is running out of "real" parts and now wants to get her lips "done". I said, "Absolutely not!!! This isn't "Dr 90210", you can't buy your happiness. Why are you chasing what is already inside you?" How is that for "tough love"? The world does not revolve around highlights, tanning, manicures, and bikini waxing. Well, my world doesn't. I want her to be genuinely happy not this "crazy happy" that she is after. I gave her my speech on it the rest is up to the C. I know when I am over my head. Yeah, we have a long road ahead of us.

[tbone]

Wow, finally got time to re-read my speed rants from this afternoon. I need to slow down a little. I sounded very "my way or the highway" and it won't let me edit my "train wreck". Hence three posts in a row on my own thread, sorry. The million dollar question is am I ready for her to NOT be honest. Not right now, NO WAY!!! There in lies the problem. If she will continue to be more open, communicative, and expressive that would help greatly. She has started but has a long way to go. I only expect progress not perfection. I don't need her passwords. Tell me about the calls you get or what emails you have received. Not all of them, just share with me what goes on in your life. I enjoy the day to day interaction we used to share. Now I share more of that stuff with my friends than her. We call and ask how each other is doing, you know, just the little stuff. I wish my W would start to do that again. I feel that I am a good partner and friend but my W won't open up to me. She seems to feel that she needs some wall. I have softened dramatically over the years and hopefully that wall will start to crumble. I want to feel close to my W. That is needed in any R. What I realized when she was gone is I can share those little things with someone else quite comfortably and they can with me. Kind of took some of the "shine" off of our R. That was a reality check. My life had revolved around my W for so long and I realized it doesn't need to. A lot of our good times I could have had with someone else. Don't get me wrong, I still love only her but will no longer sacrifice myself for her. I will be more true to myself and if she wants to be with the real me, great. I feel like I finally became my own man at 34. My late FIL was a huge influence on me. He cared for people greatly but could care less what they thought of him. He had tremendous conviction, unwavering, a rock. I want to be more like him. Hopefully maturity will help we get there

[tbone]

Well, the movers brought all of my W stuff to the house today. She is very motivated to redecorate the house and can't wait to have our families over. I am assuming that is a good thing. I got my head ripped off Tues. night for aksing if this is what she really wants to do. She was just nasty. Since then I have emotionally stepped back. I can't subject myself to her roller coaster. I am off until my busy season is over. I just can't invest in the M right now. I am being courteous but not overly friendly. Luckily I work 13-14 hrs a day so it is almost like going dark. We'll see how it works.

My M bought me "Family First" today and I plan on reading that next month when I have time. My goal is to follow the trust quote, not try to look for deceit, and see what progress can be made. Also going to practice the "When in doubt, do nothing" lifestyle. Wish me luck. I will update.