This is my first post in this section. I've been watching others for a while.
Last holiday season an old flame sent me a Christmas card. She included a long letter detailing a life story since I last saw her about 10 years ago. Some of the more interesting details: She never got married and lives within a couple hours of my residence. Is it just me or is she dropping a hint?
Yes, I know that affairs are a very bad idea; however, you've got to admit that when you have a seriously LD spouse (3 times a month--if I'm lucky), resisting the temptation is no easy task. Especially considering that on average (yes, I've actually kept count) my W utters at most 3 sentences a day that are neither complaints, orders nor sentences that start with "We need...". In the case of commands, she rarely demonstrates the courtesy to even let me finish eating a meal to start barking out the orders. The word 'please' is also a rarity.
In the case of "We need..." and complaints, whenever her concerns get addressed and corrected, she finds new ones--I swear she can't be pleased or satisified! What do you do for someone who grasps at whatever straw there is for a complaint. Seriously, I have once been called to the carpet over an out-of-place spoon.
Anyone have an idea on some other self-help for this sick desire of hers to be miserable? Or at least dealing with it? I know for sure that I'm not going to put myself in the hospital with a stress-related illness trying to please the un-pleasable.
Make no mistake, I am not considering cheating, nor am I trying to excusing those who do. I have always believed in working within the system. I want to stay married and happy (TELL ME THAT DESIRE IS NOT CONTRADICTORY!). First thing I've already done was to destroy OW's correspondence (lead me not into temptation). Next I will read SSM and Change you Life and apply those ideas.
I was cataloging a large stack of clothing for donation ( It's Deductible and DeductionPro have the IRS's fair market value database--you'd be pleasantly surprised what the IRS allows for charity donation of clothes, housewares and furniture) and found some rather interesting lingerie. As there were no tags or manufacturer's creases, she clearly wore those garments at one time or another--presumebly for her first ex (I'm H #3). In other conversation, she let on that they experimented with toys and backdoor--this is when I am all but begging for plain vanilla more than 3 times per month. To get her in the mood, I either have to give her a thorough back rub (and all but exhaust myself) or get her drunk (and walk a hair-thin line between ML and Exorcist-style projectile vomiting, a sure mood killer for both of us).
At another time, I shredded some old financial records (identity theft concerns) which happened to include some of the last tax returns with her seconed ex. She made considerably more than her exH#2 on those returns and in all likelihood was covering all of their expenses. Not long ago, things were kind of tight for me, so I asked her to help me out with a credit card bill. The total amount was about $300. Her response was a hissy fit. Now keep in mind that she makes over $65k and spends a lot of it on home decorations (for grandiose plans which must be carried out yesterday by me alone more often than not and don't count on her help for maintenance afterwards) and tchotchkies (Lennox and Hummel primarialy) that are not enitrely likely to even see the light of day.
Why am I getting treated worse her exes? Understand that I do almost all of the chores around the house: cooking, dishes, laundry, mowing the lawn, changing cat litter (other cleaning in done by a rather excellent maid service )--whenever I ask her to help out by folding the clean laundry (mostly hers) I am on the receiving end of a hissy fit most often than not. Never mind, that she can easily do this while watching Lifetime's lastest misandry marathon, one of her favorite pastimes--apparently just slightly ahead of shopping for supplies for even more decorating work that I am already have little time or energy to do. I finally got her to quit euphamizing "We" (as in "we will be working on this room") when she means me alone--at most she will spend the day flat on her back in front of the idiot box and sharply criticize after the fact (I've come to expect very little else).
By some miracle, she at least is packed and organized the holiday decorations--only decent since she bought enough to fill a cargo van and spent most of December putting them up.
Yes, I realize that I have a role in this and plan to order copies of DB & DR to analyze my role and work from there.
Any advice or encouragement will be greatly appreciated. Please no suggestions about MC as you can see in my previous posts, this has been a waste of time. Especially since my W refuses to see anyone except the same ineffectual quack who provoked those posts in the first place.
Whew! This sounds somewhat similar to my sitch, except that at least my W does some work around the house. I might suggest that you get at least one other book: Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend. It sounds like you need to learn how to set those boundaries.
I, too, felt (and still feel sometimes) like my W's slave. I set a boundary about laundry, and now she is responsible for her and DD3's laundry. What a burden lifted!
As for S, well, count yourself lucky, dude. It's maybe two times a year for me. But I know how anything under your preferred frequency can hurt. Read the books.
As I told someone else earlier today, it's a long and bumpy road ahead of you.
wdiftya, I see you are married to a worse version of my shopaholic wife. She does the laundry, takes care of the cat box, and cleans the house. My W used to watch infomercials most of the day and we had UPS deliverys daily. Lifetime, Oh Yes. The network that protrayed so many mean, cheating H's.
My W changed some when I said she could live by herself and watch all the "men are assholes" TV she wanted and she could lay on the sofa and have 2 phones to order things from infomercials. My W worked part time and earned $12K a year, inherited some money and spent $15K a year on her things. Even our D said "Mom's shopping is out of control." The change took several months and W still does retail therapy.
First, you have to "ACT LIKE HER FRIEND" then list what you need in the M, ask what she needs in the M, see where you can compromise, Avoid, avoid, avoid rehashing old hurts, and see what happens.
RE: WE I have the same problem. I tell W that A or B will get done, not both. I try to get her to see her "WE" is almost 99% me and say WE did not discuss this. If we did, I was not around when it happened. I also suggest things that "WE", meaning her and "I" might like to do.
Re: ineffectual quack Our first C was a womens issues specialist. I did not know this fact at the time. The C said my W's motives were normal and I was controlling. The C did help us a little in communicating.
RE: Books Get "Divorce Remedy" it's the up-dated version of DB. DR will tell you what not to do which seems to be more important in the beginning than knowing what to do.
Read DR, read the BB, post here, and be ready for many ups and downs. BE fair, be persistant, and be ready to do what ever it takes. Do not avoid painful conversations. Too many people avoid being real so the spouse will not blow up.
S/crap hits the fan and that is OK if it is getting you somewhere. Quit doing what does not work.
Welcome to the BB. I noticed you let us in on quite a bit of her behavior...and you're right it's tough to live with someone who chooses to complain and seen nothing but the bad side of things constantly.
One thing I didn't notice you mention though...talking to her about this behavior. Have you talked to her about this? Have you told her how her behavior makes you feel? What needs of YOURS that YOU have that aren't being met?
I know people who sound like your W...they are the pessimists, the half glass empty type of people. But ya know what...IF you haven't talked to her about this she may be completely clueless as to how she's coming across.
Next...you think you're being treated worse than her ex's? Sorry, that sounded wrong...you feel that you are, and you very well may be. Here's something I experienced with my H. He had been treated very poorly in the past by his ex's they constantly put him down and made him feel he wasn't good enough, no matter what he did...this went on for quite some time.
Eventually he met and married me...once we were married his behavior (not sexually) changed towards me...he began to push me away big time...unintentionally. I was often rejected and ignored. Why? I now know that this was a "do unto others before they do unto you..." type of thing.
He was making sure that what had happened to him in the past would never happen to him again, so he took a self defensive posture....which ended up backfiring with him pushing me away by treating me just as his ex's had treated him....and he didn't even see it.
So....what were her past relationships like? Is there a pattern among the men she's picked? W/my H he's always seemed to pick very dominate/domineering women. Now, I am the dominant personality between the two of us, but I'm far from domineering....which for him is a complete change and one of the things that attracted him to me....but he was clueless when it came to how to relate to me emotionally.
I too was tempted to cheat...but DITCH THAT THOUGHT! Sure it's tempting, fantasies are often very appealing...but how would you feel if she did that to you? Keep that in mind. Keep in mind when that fantasy pops into your head the damage you could do to a marriage you are trying to save...that should help keep you from going there.
My H and I are on the road to a much better marriage now, but for us it has required counseling, which....I HIGHLY recommend!!!
Just giving you some stuff to think about, sorry if it's kind of muddled.
First of all thank you all for your quick answers. To paraphrase the Chinese cliche, I think I just took the first couple steps in a thousand mile journey. It already helps to see that I am not alone.
To hairdog: I just read amazon excerpt for Boundaries in Marriage and plan to order a copy along with the companion workbook. As for the S in your case, how do you stand it? Or did I just answer my question? I mean how do you stay faithful. I shredded correspondence from an old flame and regularly delete spam dealing with dating services.
To OG_Lou: How, in a practical sense does one act like a friend to a spouse? (Or is that in one of the books that I mentioned?).
About "WE", I simply called her on that. I stated that I prefer honest self-absorption to bogus altruism. "You have no problem saying that with actions, why not with words." She has started to make at least a token effort at diving the labor for home improvement. If she relapses, I'll be glad your approach. Thank you.
I've read Michelle's sample chapter of DR. It sounds good.
To GEL:
Thank you for that welcome. I have started to call her on the negativity. My latest approach has been to ask what I've done right. Now that I think of it, balancing criticism of me with a compliment was the only advice directed specifically at my W from her excuse for a therapist.
As for your query on her past relationships, the details are sketchy. However, the best I could gather is that her first was controlling and her second was grossly irresponsible (drinking and gambling). I could probe for details, but that would be looking past more than I care to do.
As for cheating, my old flame's correspondence met my new confetti-cut paper shredder. Enough said. The thought is out of my mind. The idea is to solve problems not add to them.
With regard to counseling, check my posts under 'When Therapy Hurts'. Until I can convince her to drop the quack, that will not be an option. It is ironic that she got more mileage out of a $15 self-help book than two years with her therapist.
Again thanks to all. The problem took years to build, it will take years to solve.
When my W used to say "WE", I would come back "who do you have in your back pocket." in a somewhat friendly manner. It took about a year for her to stop saying "WE"
RE: acting like friends, not spouses. I starting considering myself emotionally seperated from the W. I got to the point that I would rather have her leave than continue the lonely M.
So, if one does not have much of an emotional connection with a spouse, basically you are not emotionally married. If this person you are living with goes from being a spouse to a room mate with very few shared benefits, you don't care what they do. BUT, and a big but, you are willing to try to do as much repair as you can before any physical leaving takes place.
You set limits on how much crap you will thak from your alien spouse. You decide things that you will do and expect nothing in return because that is the way you would treat an opposite sex friend you had, that you two shared no sexual chemistry.
It's kind of like living with a cousin you can and can't get along with. You are pleasant to a degree, don't let the cousin get away with crap, you don't take advantage of her.
This is not an easy task, especially when one person is doing most of the work and the other person keeps bringing up how you screwed up in the past or has an entitlement attitude.
Appreciate that answer. I am not to that point (I don't think).
For whatever it's worth, I found a third option to getting her in the mood: a bath together (we have a whirlpool). (Yes, we did it. )
She did mention a declining S drive on her part. I was, unfortunately too tired to follow on that, but at least there is a possibility of future convo on that subject. Just a question to find the right time and place .
I am about a third of the way through SSM and I consciously working to rid myself of the notion that her LD is not due to spite, anger or lack of affection.
My thanks to all who read and responded to my posts. My W actually suggested a bath last night. We had a convo there about various topics. My W voluntered that at a routine doctor's check she balked at a certain medication, because "it would destroy what little SD I still have." There's hope-she at least acknowledges that she is LD and I am not entirely satisfied (understatements, I know). Suggestions, on how I can gently convince her to read SSM and/or Dr. Laura's Care and Feeding of Husbands ? As she acknowledges a problem, the next step can commence.
I'm going to agree w/Lou on this. I personally WOULD NOT give Dr. Laura's book to her. I have read this book and felt it was horribly slanted and unrealistic...in short, I did not like it!
I wouldn't hesitate however to ask her to read Michelle's SSM book...because this one I do feel is pretty fair to both sides HD/LD. She at least attempts to relate to both sexes in both situations. So if your W reads the entire book...she's going to get a very good feeling of what you are going through too.
I would also recommend The Five Love Languages as well...you can order both books on CD too. I did this for my H recently since reading instantly puts him to sleep LOL...but he was more than willing to listen to the books on tape (CD)
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