Dr. John Gottman wrote several communication books and he also runs a relationship clinic somewhere in the NW, I think. His books are filled with common sense style advice, as well as much biophysical information that was gathered at his clinic. For instance, men will sometimes "stonewall" when they are mad...they walk away or shut down and refuse to talk. Dr. Gottman researched this and there is actually a flooding of the brain that occurs with men and they become so overwhelmed that it is literally fight or flight. Since most are not inclined to punch their W's lights out, they sit there stonily silent or get up and leave. Prior to reading this, I assumed that my H was just being an ahole when he did these things. Once I read about the actual biological happenings inside him, it made it easier for me to just back off when I saw this happening to him--no matter how mad I was at the moment--and take it up later.
Anyway, yeah, we still have a ways to go on the ol communication front. Most of his hangups have been largely taken care of because I am a stay at home mother. His fears have been eased because there is no contact between me and the outside world. (with the exception of you kind people who keep me company) Prior to this, he was given to fits of jealousy and wanting to tell me what to do. We have been talking about it lately, even though I'm no closer to rejoining the work force.
We had an interesting incident yesterday. We are having killer weather here in the midwest...80 degrees I think it was yesterday. So I wore shorts and sandals, fully aware that he is a leg man and would surely notice. He did. At one point I went down to talk to the neighbors and he stayed in the driveway with our baby. I returned home after a few minutes and cooked supper. As I was doing that, he said that his "blood pressure was going up as I watched X and Y (our male neighbors) watch you walk back home." I sorta downplayed it because truly I had no idea if they did that or not, but mostly I wanted to fill the 'dead air' because I know from experience with my H that the next words out of his mouth would be instructions on how NOT to dress, so that I don't inadvertantly turn on our neighbors. I was internally cringing and preparing for these words and I found myself talking to fill the space so he couldn't do this. IOW, we both try to control the other, I guess. Bottom line: H didn't say a word about my clothing, Yay H, and I eventually shut the hell up and gave him an opportunity to either rise to the occasion or sink to his usual low.
ConfuseMe wrote: It seems lately that everything I say comes out the wrong way or gets taken the wrong way. HP wrote about Dr. John Gottman book: For instance, men will sometimes "stonewall" when they are mad...they walk away or shut down and refuse to talk. Dr. Gottman researched this and there is actually a flooding of the brain that occurs with men and they become so overwhelmed that it is literally fight or flight. Since most are not inclined to punch their W's lights out, they sit there stonily silent or get up and leave.
Keep it up HP and CM, I think I can learn something here.
Quote: ----------------- His books are filled with common sense style advice, as well as much biophysical information that was gathered at his clinic. For instance, men will sometimes "stonewall" when they are mad...they walk away or shut down and refuse to talk. Dr. Gottman researched this and there is actually a flooding of the brain that occurs with men and they become so overwhelmed that it is literally fight or flight. Since most are not inclined to punch their W's lights out, they sit there stonily silent or get up and leave. Prior to reading this, I assumed that my H was just being an ahole when he did these things. Once I read about the actual biological happenings inside him, it made it easier for me to just back off when I saw this happening to him--no matter how mad I was at the moment--and take it up later. ---------------
Yep that sounds familiar to me (from when I read teh book a while back. So here is a tough question for ya to that end. How do you relay that information to your spouse (from your view point) without comming accross as trying to avaoid the problem being discussed? I have tried that a few times in the past, the one instance I remember I told W that I thought I should go for a walk to let things cool down, the return comment was, "dont get me worked up then want to take a break, im not gonna want to talk about this later, ive got my toughts organized right now!", she even went as far as to follow me out the door! It wasnt a pretty sight.
quote: ----------------- We had an interesting incident yesterday. We are having killer weather here in the midwest...80 degrees I think it was yesterday. So I wore shorts and sandals, fully aware that he is a leg man and would surely notice. He did. At one point I went down to talk to the neighbors and he stayed in the driveway with our baby. I returned home after a few minutes and cooked supper. As I was doing that, he said that his "blood pressure was going up as I watched X and Y (our male neighbors) watch you walk back home." I sorta downplayed it because truly I had no idea if they did that or not, but mostly I wanted to fill the 'dead air' because I know from experience with my H that the next words out of his mouth would be instructions on how NOT to dress, so that I don't inadvertantly turn on our neighbors. I was internally cringing and preparing for these words and I found myself talking to fill the space so he couldn't do this. IOW, we both try to control the other, I guess. Bottom line: H didn't say a word about my clothing, Yay H, and I eventually shut the hell up and gave him an opportunity to either rise to the occasion or sink to his usual low. ----------------
This is interesting, I seem to have made a mistake in this area in the past. So here is the next question. From your viewpoint, if H perceives W clothes to be inapporpriate (revealing etc) when she is going to work (in an office environment) should he comment or keep them to himself?
I had two sepparate instances where I obviously should have kept my mouth shut, but didnt (the old hind sight thing). First one was where W bought a shirt that showed a fair amount of cleavge, I mentioned that it may make other males in her office uncomfortable, more info on her job, she works in corperate circles that is mostly male dominated. She took it as, you dont like this shirt and it obviously came accross hurtful. Second incident, she bought some low rise blue jeans and wore them to a clean up that we had to do for our D5's gym club. While cleaning (and any other time she wears them), there is a fair amount (understatement) of butt cleavage shown, I mentioned it to her, first comment was no its not, I had to return no im sorry yes there is a large amount when you bend over. I also said I thought that you would like to hear it from me as opposed to someone else. KABOOM not a pretty thing. I guess in hind sight is it best to just keep our (males) mouths shut when it comes to items of clothing that you spouse wears? Let me know what you think im am very interested.
The more insights I can gain from the opposite sex the better!
Hi Confused, As far as the stonewalling thing goes, I think the idea is to never let the argument get to that point. But...being that you're human, perhaps you could give a specific time frame so that she knows you are not using the "I need space" thing as a way to get out of having to talk about it. Something like, I gotta get out of here; I'll be back in 30 minutes so we can continue this.
I too have done the follow him out the door thing in order to keep the fight alive and well and!!!!! I even did it after I had read the book. Sheesh, sometimes my own stupidity just blows my mind. I knew it wasn't a good time to try and resolve anything (aka, fight) but I couldn't stop myself because I was too far gone in Temper Tantrum Land. I honestly don't mind if H takes a break from a discussion but he must come back to it. No fair just walking out and expecting that to be the end of it.
The clothes.........that's a sticky one. My gut reaction is this: I think it's fine to state your opinion on her clothing but then you back off and let her do what she decides. She's an adult, after all. If she looks ridiculous flaunting butt cleavage (and let's face it, WHO doesn't!) then let her look silly.
My clothing is sexy but classy. There is no cleavage showing--on either end--but I do like to show off my positive assets. There is a sexy edge to the way I dress and I don't mind form fitting clothes, though like I said, they are still classy. My H does not have a leg to stand on as far as reaming me about my clothes and he knows it. His problem is that someone ELSE might be sexually stimulated by me. The odd thing is that he hardly ever notices me, or what I am wearing, but put me in a room full of people and all of a sudden his eyes are trained on me. I suppose I'd have much less of a problem with this 'possessiveness' thing if he noticed me at home, too. The fact that his eyes wake up when others are around but he goes back to being a lazy pool of asexuality when we're alone just really chaps me. AND it is never a positive thing when others notice me..he's always on the verge of being po'd about it. There is really no positive association with him and the way I look. I wish words of affirmation were not important to me cause it certainly would make things run a lot smoother in my home.
Anyway, it is a fine line that you are walking. Maybe others will be able to chime in here. I think you should be able to say, Man those pants are low...they look great but I don't know if I want other people seeing you like that! with a smile, but then I think you should back off and let it go. She's a grown up, albeit one with a really unfortunate fashion sense.
Quote: d I thought that you would like to hear it from me as opposed to someone else. KABOOM not a pretty thing. I guess in hind sight is it best to just keep our (males) mouths shut when it comes to items of clothing that you spouse wears?
Yes, in hind sight, it would be best not to mention butt cleavage, however, she may end up the butt of jokes, or she may not be allowed to pick her seat at social events. I know I probably shouldn't make cracks about this, but I think we should work on wiping out this type of fashion. I'm not trying to be an ass, but, I'm curious as to whether she would wear something like this on a farm. I mean, if I'm smelling dairy air, I really don't want to see something rear it's ugly head. Or whatever.
quote: ----------------- As far as the stonewalling thing goes, I think the idea is to never let the argument get to that point. But...being that you're human, perhaps you could give a specific time frame so that she knows you are not using the "I need space" thing as a way to get out of having to talk about it. Something like, I gotta get out of here; I'll be back in 30 minutes so we can continue this. ------------------
I hear ya it does make sense on setting a time frame to come back to the convo. Ill have to give that a try. Currently I asked W if we could avoid R talks for a week, unless there is a burning issue that she really needs to vent on. So Im thinking there wont be any heated convos for a week but im sure it will get heated again after that, so as long as I have a plan that should be good.
quote: -------------- I too have done the follow him out the door thing in order to keep the fight alive and well and!!!!! I even did it after I had read the book. Sheesh, sometimes my own stupidity just blows my mind. I knew it wasn't a good time to try and resolve anything (aka, fight) but I couldn't stop myself because I was too far gone in Temper Tantrum Land. I honestly don't mind if H takes a break from a discussion but he must come back to it. No fair just walking out and expecting that to be the end of it. ------------
I guess life and R's seem to be all about keeping a focus and clam head at all times even tho we are all human. Tends to make things.. hmm .. interesting ya thats the word..
Quote: --------------- The clothes.........that's a sticky one. My gut reaction is this: I think it's fine to state your opinion on her clothing but then you back off and let her do what she decides. She's an adult, after all. If she looks ridiculous flaunting butt cleavage (and let's face it, WHO doesn't!) then let her look silly. --------------
Hmm good thoughts. Im almost wondering if its more along the lines of I need to avoid comments unless im asked for them. And even then they need to be carefully worded. I think my W is having a problem with self image, she keeps saying stuff like "geez your gonna weigh less than me soon!" I have lost about 20 lbs. Funny thing is tho she wont say words of affirmation to that end. Sounds like you and I are alike in that area. LL's are PT and W of A for me.
Quote: ---------------- Anyway, it is a fine line that you are walking. Maybe others will be able to chime in here. I think you should be able to say, Man those pants are low...they look great but I don't know if I want other people seeing you like that! with a smile, but then I think you should back off and let it go. She's a grown up, albeit one with a really unfortunate fashion sense. ----------------
Yes and yes. Other input would be much appreciated. Not sure if I need to start a new post titled.. How should or should not males comment on females clothing? Hmm need to work on the title a little more.. As far as W's fashon sense I think shes trying to look like a younger version of herself. Back when things started getting difficult in our R she went out and got a tatoo on her butt, the type that shows when you wear low waist jeans. I think subconsciously shes trying to show it off.. Not too sure..
Thanks again for the insights, they do help shed a little light on my sich. Hope things go well for you. Warm weather is on its way here too, hopefully your H will begin to appreciate your clothing and say so
Quote: --------------- Yes, in hind sight, it would be best not to mention butt cleavage, however, she may end up the butt of jokes, or she may not be allowed to pick her seat at social events. I know I probably shouldn't make cracks about this, but I think we should work on wiping out this type of fashion. I'm not trying to be an ass, but, I'm curious as to whether she would wear something like this on a farm. I mean, if I'm smelling dairy air, I really don't want to see something rear it's ugly head. Or whatever. --------------
Lol I love the amount of alliterations laced in your comments.. Sorry not sure if it was meant to be funny but it struck me that way. The other funny thing about your comments is W was raised on a farm LOL.
I hear ya and that is exactly what I was feeling / thinking on the matter. But I think alot of times (lately for me) its best to bite your toung and hope for the best. I hate the fashon as well so hopefully it will be changed soon
Thanks for the laugh tho, whether it was meant to be funny or not..
Quote: The odd thing is that he hardly ever notices me, or what I am wearing, but put me in a room full of people and all of a sudden his eyes are trained on me. I suppose I'd have much less of a problem with this 'possessiveness' thing if he noticed me at home, too. The fact that his eyes wake up when others are around but he goes back to being a lazy pool of asexuality when we're alone just really chaps me.
Gee, HP. Sounds like you need to invite an audience to your bedroom, LOL
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
