Is this really so insurmountable??

[heatherg]

About 7 months ago, I confessed to my husband that I had seen another man on about 5 separate occassions. There was no sex, kissing was THE only physical expression. We have been together for a very loyal 12 years-I am 30 and he is 31, so all of our adult lives we have been together. We have two beautiful children and are very devoted parents. After we had our children, H just wasn't interested in doing things with me alone, kids always had to be there, we couldn't leave them because we both work and already spent too much time away from them. But I wasn't even second on the priority list-he also has a very strong relationship with alcohol and he always has. Alchohol has been a HUGE issue for me, although I do not know if he feels he has a problem. The subject is off limits for discussion as far as he is concerned. He has gotten better, he used to drink 6 nights a week, now only drinks 2 nights a week. Always beer, 12-14 of them on his "drinking nights". I have been hateful to him in the past because he refuses to quit, causing him to become somewhat emotionally detached. He was out of town for work for about 7 months, home only on the weekends and he spent that time reconnecting with the children, never with me. In addition, he was viweing internet pornography, which I never actually asked him to stop doing, I only expressed hurt and anger that he would do that and continue to do that even though he knew it hurt me. I am open minded and generally uninhibited-if pornography was a problem for our marriage, why would he push that?? It didn't have to be a problem, it only was b/c he wouldn't honor my feelings on the issue.
When he found out what I did, he threw me out of my house at 7am in the morning and for the next week, kept my kids away from, would not let me feed them, dress them or tuck them in. Finally he accepted that I would not remain out of our home (after a lawyer's advice) and he stopped hassling me to leave. For four months he slept in my son's bed with him, refusing to sleep in our bed, which I was not and still am not allowed in either by the way. At least he now sleeps in there instead of with our son. At one point, we restablished an intimate connection, but he refused to kiss me saying that I gave that away. He says he will never kiss me again. Nor will he ride in my vehicle b/c the OM was in the car. We take separate vehicles everywhere we go, with our son riding with him and our daughter riding with me. He has also removed his wedding ring. I have so much anger inside of me as a result of being treated this way that I have had a very difficult time even being NICE to him much less sorry for what I did to him and our marriage. Now he says he wants to cohabitate in the same home and raise our children. We get along wonderfully as a family and he said he is willing to forfeit his future with a mate. I will not live in a situation where there is no real marriage, but I don't want to break up our family either. Perhaps he is still hurting....but he has been just as hurtful to me, I cannot understand how he can feel so justified. Please help!!!

[sun387]

I wouldnt say that this sitch can not be overcome. But you have to realize something, that even tho you did not have sex with this person, the emotional betrayel is there for your H. Not to say that you are a horrible person for what has happened, by no means is that the case. In fact what affairs of any kind should teach us is that both parties played a part in the demise of the relationship. For you, your H's drinking probably had alot to do with what was going on, the lack of attention from H. But now try to look at things from H's perspective. He is now hurt, angry and probably embarressed all rolled into one. In my sitch my H is still having his EA and although once or twice he has apologized for hurting me, the apology doesnt mean that much to me because it is still going on. You say you are sorry for something that you did, not still doing. Have you ended all communication with this OM? Have you tried to sit down with H and explain your feelings? If you are sorry for what has happened and your part in the R breakdown than I think that your H really needs to hear it. Dont point fingers, just take responsibility for YOUR actions. Not his.

I know I battle with living in a loveless marriage as well. I am quite surprised that your H is willing to do that for the kids. I think about that alot as well. I only have one D but she is only 2 1/2 and to think that if I stay in that type of R with H, what does that teach her about love?

My suggestion is to read DB and/or DR. But if your H is willing to listen, then talk to him about your feelings, not his.

Sun

[ValerieA]

Hi, Heather. I'm so sorry about your sitch.

I agree with Sun. You need to talk with your H and take responsibility for your part in the downfall of your M. If things start to get heated in your discussion, then agree to talk at a later time and in a calmer manner. If your H isn't willing to talk or listen to what you have to say, then try writing him a letter. Many times in my R I felt like I couldn't get through to my H when I tried to speak with him, so sometimes I decided to write him a letter. He read it when HE was ready, and he came to me when HE was ready to talk. If you decide to go with a letter, and your H initiates the discussion, let him say what he wants first and don't interrupt him. Even if he says something you disagree with or something to hurt you. Remember, he is the betrayed one and he is understandably hurting. I'm not saying you are the monster in all of this, but you have to be sympathetic with him. If you are truly sorry for what you've done, then you really need to express that to him. He needs to feel that from you.

I hope some of this helps. Hang in there. We all understand the pain, anger, and frustration you are going through.

Thanks for listening,
JVJKB

[heatherg]

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I have ceased contact with the OM from the moment I told my husband, not as much as another phone call.
I really do understand that the emotional betrayal is there regardless of the fact that I did not sleep with the guy. It has been seven months and I'm just frustrated. I was honestly ready to leave when I found DB. My papers are ready for signature with my lawyer and I was emotionally at a place where I could have left H. But cannot cope with not being able to see my children half the time. That would kill me, pain far worse than what's going on here. I feel discouraged. I'm 30....I want to have sex and H won't even kiss me for crying out loud. What if a year goes by and he still hasn't made any physical advances? Like I said before, we had re-established an intimate connection about two months ago, but I would not go there again unless he was willing to let go of the "no kissing". If he's emotionally healed enough to have sex, is he not emotionally healed enough to kiss me?? And emotionally healed enough for me to be allowed to sleep in my own bed??

[heatherg]

I tried writing a few letters, b/c I too thought that would be helpful. When we talk, we argue, and when we argue I walk away knowing I said things I didn't mean and wondering how much of what he said he really meant. Communication is soo hard for us. The only comment he made about the letters I wrote was about something I said to the effect of "Obviously there is one thing in particular I know I should not have done. But I would not be the person I am at this moment, and I believe I have a better understanding of myself , our marriage and our family now. I honestly do not know that I would trade that to go back in time". Maybe that was not such a good thing to say? Ouch, I wasn't trying to sound like I wouldn't take back the breach of trust if I could.....I only wanted to convey that I HAVE learned from this. Do I sound totally insensitive?

[brandirenae]

H,
I think you have come to the right place for support and "venting". Have you read DB yet? If not, I definitely recommend you do as it will give you a stepping ground to get started on.
I don't think you insensitive, I think you are frustrated with the situation and therefore you are "reacting" to your H's "reacting" to the situation, I hope that makes sense to you. You are scared, and when we are scared we tend to try and "control" the situation in order to make things better, but in essence we tend to make more craziness. I definitely speak from experience because I've been where you are, trust me. My H and I also went through about a year or maybe longer where we were "there" and I so wanted to be partners but he had no interest anymore, I had "betrayed" him. It was not until Dec. that my H finally saw that I was doing for ME that I was no longer going to "fix" the M and control the outcome, and that's when he changed because I changed. I let go, I did for me, I lived for me, I became a better person for it and now I have my M back, more importantly my H back. The man I fell in love with, we work together, we try, but it's definitely work.
Unfortunately, your H is not going to respond to you, he has told you he doesn't want you as his W, however, he has not mentioned D so there is definitely postives in the situation.
List them, you guys live together, you have had some physical contact, though not kissing, it's still contact and that's a positive, he still involves you in the "family" time and that is another positive.
My advice, no more R talks at all. No more "persuing" or trying to "fix" it, no more trying to convince H that you are sorry, bottom line, no R talks.
If and when you read DB you will see you need to start doing things and taking care of things for you. Right now your H is only concerned for his feelings and how he feels, no amount of talking or letters are going to change his mind, in fact, it may even push him further away, because he is hurting and the hurt was caused by you. H may feel that forgiving you would be giving you back the "power" or letting you get away with it. Unfortunately, you're going to have to go with his time clock on it for the time being.
Making changes in you, however, will spark a change in him, I mean think about what your betrayal did, it changed him for worse, changes in you for the better will only make him change for the better.
Make some goals, get a life outside of your M. Do things by yourself, put some mystery back in your life.
Start acting "as if" meaning, act as if you are fine with the situation, that it doesn't bother you, monitor the results and see what happens.
These are just suggestions and they worked for my situation and I was where you were, for a long time unfortunately, and when I found this sight, my life, my M and ME all changed for the better
Good luck

[ValerieA]

Communication is soo hard for us.... The only comment he made about the letters I wrote was about something I said to the effect of "Obviously there is one thing in particular I know I should not have done. But I would not be the person I am at this moment, and I believe I have a better understanding of myself , our marriage and our family now. I honestly do not know that I would trade that to go back in time". .....I only wanted to convey that I HAVE learned from this. Do I sound totally insensitive?

I wouldn't say that you were insensitive. You were only trying to make your point. It just didn't sound right to your H.

I would recommend that you get Divorce Remedy , After the Affair , and The Five Love Languages if you haven't already. Read DR first. After... is great for giving you a better understanding of your feelings as well as your H's. It will tell you what your H is going through and how to help him cope. Since communication is a problem, you should definitely get TFLL. It could help you learn how to better communicate with your H. When you learn to speak his love language, he will hopefully reciprocate in your love language. Hence, better communication between the two of you.

Whatever you choose, you need to work on you. The better you feel about your life and/or yourself, the stronger you will be to reach your goal.

Be strong and good luck, Heather.

[heatherg]

Well, I said I wasn't going to back to physical intimacy without kissing, but scratch that. He approached me and I absolutely could not refuse...maybe it's best not to push that anyway. From what you are all saying, I need to go on his timeline...
So, anyway, that is a step in the right direction I guess?
I am reading DB. Do you think that mystery is a good thing right now since I am the one who committed the breach of trust? He doesn't seem to react well when I go places at night. I started learning karate about 3 months ago and he didn't even like that at first, although he's fine with it now.
I've been trying to think of our progress as a conversation. He makes a move, I validate it and reciprocate with a similar move. Then I wait for him to make his next move. That way, both of us feel like have some control in the direction of the relationship. I hate feeling like a victim and it has been really difficult not to because of the way he's treated me. But I'm getting better. I'm learning that there are ways to reinforce and discourage the way he treats me. I guess I thought no physical intimacy would be a way to discourage the no kissing rule, but I think that element of a relationship is way too important to purposely withhold for any reason. So, I think in the end I think my hormones made the right decision, lol!!
How do you all feel about counseling? It seems that my counselor has done a good job at validating my feelings, but I don't think she's offered me ANY advice or tips on how to communicate better or try to understand H's perspective. I think when I first started seeing her, I was so confused about whether or not my feelings mattered and I felt so lost as to who I was. It seemed that whatever H said about me I believed without having and constant "knowing" of my own feelings. So, she has helped in that regard, but now I need someone who's going to look at me and say, "this marriage doesn't have to be over. have you tried this or this?" I guess that's what I'm hoping to get from this site. So far, so good, thanks

[ValerieA]

I am reading DB. Do you think that mystery is a good thing right now since I am the one who committed the breach of trust? He doesn't seem to react well when I go places at night.

In my opinion, I don't think mystery on your part will do you any good. You said your H doesn't react well when you go out at night. That is understandable, and I'm sure you agree. I haven't read DB, but I have read DR. In it, Michele says you, the unfaithful one, need to offer reassurances to your H, the hurt one. Even if you don't think you should have to. So if you plan on going out, you need to give him details. Where you're going, who you'll be with, etc, etc.

With the intimacy issue, will he let you kiss him? What I mean is give him kisses on his hand, neck, bicep, etc while ML. Maybe try giving his ear a little kiss, too. If he allows this, maybe in time it will warm him up to the possibility of the kind of kissing you long for.

[Den]

There is no excuse for having an affair. Sexual, emotional, whatever. That was a mistake on your part.

That being said. Is you marriage really worth saving? I have grown daughters and I would council them that alcohol abuse, emotional abuse, addiction to pornography are all deal breakers. Maybe a separation is in order such that your husband can decide where his priorities are: family or alcohol & porno.

I would suggest contrition for your failings (affair) but don't let that be a reason to settle for a poor marriage.

Den