You scenario sounds so much like ours sometime back. Speaking for your wife, she is lookin' to feel loved in the way that she does feel it...gotta be some romance in there, sounds like. But in this situation, somehow it seems when womean are like this, men dig in their heels and say...you want romance? No way you are not gonna get it until I get sex first.
And if you were the woman, I'd say honey...just give it to him...love him...ignore all the stuff...it will be better if you jump in first and give to him.
I know people here say that their spouse never understands their need for sex until they withdraw....but, for me, I would have loved having several talks...face to face. At a restaurant where my H expressed his love and desire to make me feel loved...been all flowery and romantic ..THEN told me explicitly, clearly his need for sex...take the time to explain it. Make the first part genuine,firm, make me know I am serious about this..these would be the consequences.... loving and not defensive. Do this more than once to be sure she is acting on it.
I can't say what I would have done for sure had my H done this...but I sure would have liked the opportunity to act on that to show him that I loved him enough to hear him and do what he needed. Don't wait until you are angry and frustrated and resentful beyond belief to start talking. It will take lots more to repair.
Seems like relationships communicate supposing what the other is thinking, they talk on the go, they talk in anger....or they wait to try and communicate, really communicate, when it is almost past hope.
You don't feel particularily bad because you are getting tired of it. You are getting to where you don't care. HD, that is not a good place.
Loving communication early and always could avoid so many problems for us all.
The thing is, NG, I used to be a very romantic kind of guy. My W would either not react, or react negatively. I would write poems to her, and she would say, "that's nice." I would buy her jewelry or flowers, and she'd say, "you spent too much." I would spend all day in the kitchen cooking her a gourmet meal and she would say, "this is so fattening...but tasty." I felt like I tried everything, and it fell flat. So I stopped being a romantic, creative lover. I stopped writing poems. I kept on buying her gifts, but only for her birthday and for Christmas. I kept on cooking, but only cooked something fancy when I wanted to try it . . . not for her.
And yes, I stopped saying "I love you" quite as often as I used to. I used to say it as often as I'd say "goodbye" to her. Now, I just say it when I truly feel like it. So I get criticized for not saying it on Valentines day.
I just wanted to let you know that I don't think my wife wants a romantic man. I'm not sure what she wants, but it seems to keep her comfortable if she just has something about which she can regularly complain.
Grrrrrrrr....I'd have had to say something. By making that statement he just devalued that gift of flowers and candy. Does he not understand that a gift is a gift? When you give a gift you should have no expectations that go along with it...that's what makes it a gift. Otherwise it's a bribe...or payment.
Last night I took my H a couple of roses (one red from me, one white from our S) and a few cards to go with them...which really took him off guard. He asked me what he had done to deserve them (he had never had a woman give him flowers before)...my response was "you don't have to do anything for me to want to give you a gift. I love you, I do it because I want to." Then I proceeded to cook an awesome (if I do say so myself) Italian dinner. With everything I spent quite a bundle too...did I expect sex? No...I did it because I wanted to. Sure, if he had initiated something that would have been wonderful but he didn't and we still had a very enjoyable evening.
Chacha...you have every right to tell your H that statements like the one he made are counterproductive to getting what he wants.
When I was dating I used to tell men that seemed to use gifts as bribes (not all men do this, but lets face it some do...women too for that matter) that if they wanted to give me a gift they needed to make sure they were giving it to me because they wanted to...not because there were conditions or expectations tied to it. I know that sounds a bit cold but it definitely set a boundary where that was concerned.
Well, that's for sure..she doesn't want romance! But she get's angry when YOU DON"T say that on Valentine's Day...
I'm not going to be one of the S bashing friends..so I'll keep quiet right now.
Have you tried a DB coach phone consultation? They are so good. I really recommend Laurie..ha ha, not that I'm a huge success! But I am working on it. They really have insight as to different things to do to get different reactions...it might be a very good investment. There's a lot you can get in an hour!!!!
Quote: Well, that's for sure..she doesn't want romance! But she get's angry when YOU DON"T say that on Valentine's Day...
My wife is exactly the same way. She has no interest in being romantic -- or even affectionate, really -- but gets very hurt when I don't tell her how sexy she looks.
When I spoke with H last night after work I told him that by making that comment I felt like I wasn't worth doing anything special for unless he thought he was going to get sex. I also let him know that I was disappointed because we had had a very productive discussion about what we each needed to do to make our R work better and thus our sex life improve.
He told me that he didn't think it unfair that if he goes out of his way to do something for me that I not do the same in return. He said that "you are into cards and flowers, I don't give a damn about that stuff. In fact I usually don't think much about it. What I care about is sex AND because you don't seem to clue into when I expect it I've decided to tell you. Then you can't play ignorant. I'm tired of all the talking. Why can't we just have a normal marriage?"
I asked him what he thought a normal marriage was and he said one where he got regular sex and he didn't have to bend over backwards to get it. I should just have sex with him on a regular basis because that's what you do in a marriage.
Needless to say, I feel like we just went backwards.
chacha wrote: --------------- Needless to say, I feel like we just went backwards. ---------------
Nope.
What you just did was communicate.
There is truth in what you said. There is truth in what he said.
So call him back and tell him that and have some more communication.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I guess the key word is "expectations." I started my W's day with a cute little "love" pin, kind of vintage looking like she likes. Had a GORGEOUS bouquet delivered by her favorite florist. Made our traditional Valentine's dinner. Bought French champagne. Presented her with another gift at dinner (one of those amazing Diptyque candles). Got all the kids to bed, lit the candles in the BR and...nothing. Was I "expecting" something? Well, sure. But not becuase of all I had done during the day. More because it seemed like the logical conclusion to a loving day, never mind that it happened to be 2/14. I've realized I'm in an SSM for about two years now. The thing is, when we do ML, it can be outstanding...but 2x a month doesn't cut it. I've resigned myself to the fact that we'll never be as prolific in that department as I'd like, but...
The discussion continued last night. I told H that I know he expects sex after he has gone out of his way for me but that the way he said it was crude and demeaning to me. I explained that demanding wasn't going to make me feel desire toward him. I appreciated the loving gestures that he had given me but the minute he made that demand of me my defenses went up.
H told me that he was tired of having to play games. He said that he spent years dating and having to go overboard to get sex. Buying gifts, flowers, cards. Even more so, the talking....how many times he had to pretend he was actually interested in what the women were saying in order to get laid. When we married he thought that he would get a break, that other than the ocassion like V-Day or our anniversary that our R would just roll-along. H said that he figured that since he loved me that should be enough.
He said that we went out Friday and spent the evening together and that led to ML that night. Then on Sat and Sun he tried to be attentive to me but it didn't work those nights so by Monday he wanted to make sure I understood that if he does something for me then I am to do for him. He wanted to know why if he goes out of his way to pay attention to me and talk to me every day I won't ML every day?
I told him that right now it is unrealistic to make our goal to ML every day. I mean we are trying to go from once every three months or so to every day? He got mad and said that if we wanted to we could. That we could lock the kids in their room if we had to or that I could wake up when he is on the night shift to ML when he gets home.
I got a little mad at that point and told him yeah, and you could get your butt up in the morning and have coffee with me once in awhile instead of sleeping till eleven leaving me to keep the kids quiet. He could come to bed with me in the evening instead of staying up playing video games until two in the morning. He could take the kids out of the house once in awhile and give me a break.
His response was "what does all that have to do with our sex life?"
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
