Quote: I simply don't believe that sex is more important than my commitment to my wife, our children, and our marriage. Which is saying a lot about the importance of that commitment.
Jonathan
That commitment appears to be asymmetric. Does your wife care about your feelings as much as you care about hers? From where I am sitting, your marriage has a big hole in the middle of it - one which there is no hope of filling.
I can't help thinking that both you and your wife will find more complete love with other partners with whom you might respectively find mutual attraction. Your marrige is not mutual, and your wife has slammed the door on that possibility.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
I was mistaken in saying she was holding you hostage, since you are obviously there of your own volition and so is she, but under NO circumstances do I believe that you have a WIFE any longer. She is willing to be a roommate, a coparent, a beloved companion, but not a wife. Cutting all sexual ties and declaring that she is lesbian has effectively ended the marriage. I think that one has to aspire to being a wife before they can legitimately say that they are part of a marriage, don't you think?
I'm not trying to be harsh, only to speak what appears to be the truth from my perspective. I don't think your wife has one iota of malice towards you and I'm sure she loves you deeply in a nonromantic way. I'm also sure she had no idea about this when she married you. It is so very sad and unfortunate all the way around.
Quote: She is willing to be a roommate, a coparent, a beloved companion, but not a wife. Cutting all sexual ties and declaring that she is lesbian has effectively ended the marriage. I think that one has to aspire to being a wife before they can legitimately say that they are part of a marriage, don't you think?
This is an interesting response and very well put, especially the first sentence. My question is: isn't this more or less what a lot of us are faced with? It's not as clear cut as Bolete's but the outcome is similar. Replace lesbian with LD and cutting all sexual ties with most. Less absolute but nearly as painful.
Yes, she is very affectionate, and she does fill my tank in many other ways. And especially in the last few weeks, she knows how hard this is hitting me, and has been very, very caring.
Quote: In my case, I guess my commitment to raising my children with my H is strong enough to withstand lack of sex but I'm not sure how far I'm willing to go beyond that.
I have to say that I'm afraid of Esther leaving me after our seven year old graduates. I don't want to be alone in my old age. I've discussed that with her, she says she doesn't think that's going to happen, but we both know that we've got a lot of hard ploughing ahead of us.
Quote: That commitment appears to be asymmetric. Does your wife care about your feelings as much as you care about hers?
Yes, I think she does. Surely this should be measured in terms of the whole relationship, not just in terms of sex. And really, I can't imagine a better wife for me, except in the sex department.
Quote: From where I am sitting, your marriage has a big hole in the middle of it - one which there is no hope of filling.
Looks like that where I'm sitting too. I suppose most marriages have a big hole in some area.
Quote: I can't help thinking that both you and your wife will find more complete love with other partners with whom you might respectively find mutual attraction.
Maybe, but in some ways, the love that my wife and I have shared most of our adult life, despite very difficult obstacles, and continue to share now - that love is complete in a way that a new love would not be.
Quote: Your marrige is not mutual, and your wife has slammed the door on that possibility.
It's certainly not mutual in the romantic and sexual attraction department. If love is measured in friendship, caring, and intimacy, then her love is just as strong as mine.
It would be a lot easier to divorce and find a woman who is wild about me romantically and sexually. I know that.
Quote: but under NO circumstances do I believe that you have a WIFE any longer. She is willing to be a roommate, a coparent, a beloved companion, but not a wife.
Suppose she were physically disabled and unable to have sex. Would she still be a wife? I think so. I would object if my wife had our kind of intimate relationship with another man, it's too close for just friends.
Quote: Cutting all sexual ties and declaring that she is lesbian has effectively ended the marriage.
If I use the words 'wife' and 'marriage' the way you are using them, I can only come to your conclusion. If I use these words the way I use them, I can only come to my conclusion.
Quote: I think that one has to aspire to being a wife before they can legitimately say that they are part of a marriage, don't you think?
We're working hard on what our expectations are for the marriage. At first, I wondered if we should give up on monogamy, but we soon realized how we both felt about the idea of the other having an affair. She asked whether it would be easier for me to deal with things if she moved to a separate bedroom. No, I need her close, I need that close cuddling every night when we talk about our days. Will we ever have sex? I don't know, and that's going to be a really, really hard issue for me.
Quote: I don't think your wife has one iota of malice towards you and I'm sure she loves you deeply in a nonromantic way. I'm also sure she had no idea about this when she married you. It is so very sad and unfortunate all the way around.
Yes, every sentence here is true.
Quote: I wish you luck with your chosen path.
Thank-you. I have no illusions that it's going to be easy.
Quote: My question is: isn't this more or less what a lot of us are faced with? It's not as clear cut as Bolete's but the outcome is similar. Replace lesbian with LD and cutting all sexual ties with most. Less absolute but nearly as painful.
Well, for 21 years I was one of y'all. And in a lot of ways, the dynamics have not changed that much. Except that both of us are now experiencing strong sexual temptation, not just me.
Jonathan, I wish you luck. I never meant to dissuade you from the decision you've made. I suppose I just have a tendency to think that a marriage, by definition, must be based on romantic love between two people. If you take that out of the equation, it is no longer a marriage.
I could not do what you are doing. You have my admiration for the stand you are both taking--it's definitely not the easy route.
On the other hand, my feelings are not 100% consistent.
Today was our weekly appointment with the sex therapist - the one we were seeing, up until 3 weeks ago, to figure out why sex just wasn't working between us for the last 21 years of our 22 year marriage.
Two weeks ago we told her we had figured out the basic issue, one week ago we talked about our relationship and our commitment, and this week...
...this week I fell apart. An hour before the appointment, I got a bad headache and couldn't think straight at work. I was overwhelmed by the heartache of knowing that Esther will probably never have the same romantic or sexual attraction to me that I have to her, feeling like I'm just a burden to her, the man she's married to instead of some woman she'd like to meet, afraid of me losing it and having an affair or her losing it and having an affair, afraid that she doesn't want me and just doesn't want to break her promise to me, afraid of trying hard at this and then being alone in our old age, afraid of the drag my moodiness is putting on Esther...
Got to the appointment, and the therapist asked how we were doing. Esther said something non-committal, I couldn't speak. The therapist mentioned that I looked like I was on the edge, and I started trying to talk. I couldn't open my eyes, my head was hurting bad, I was crying and having a hard time breathing or articulating. I managed somehow to mumble out the kinds of fears described above. The whole time, Esther is stroking my hand, reassuring me, telling me that she really does want me, can be patient with me, that she knows this is hard.
I got to where I just couldn't talk, and asked the therapist to lead the conversation. She moved on to another topic, one that involved primarily Esther. I grabbed some Kleenex, blew my nose, and a lot of the tension and heaviness drained out of my body over the next 10 minutes.
I'm OK again now. But I'm so these days, up and down and all over the map. I may need to tell my boss that I'm going through some difficulties, because I'm having a hard time concentrating at work.
