I'm sort of back on the board for at least a few days. I haven't been to the C in a couple months and maybe that's the problem.
Anyway, I just wanted to share something amusing...here's a couple lines that W has, ex-post-facto, claimed to be "initiating" LM with me.
1. "I'm going to bed...are you coming up?"
2. "Hey, I know you are about to go out of town for a week and you probably want some 'bedroom time' "
3. "I bet you are probably wanting some 'bedroom time' after being out of town all week"
4. I was looking at the calendar and it's been 5 days, I don't want you getting wierd...you want to go upstairs?
During a convo the other night, I said "I still don't really see much initiation on your part" and she cited the previous. (actually #4, I didn't go upstairs).
Ok, I need to stop...I'm living in the past with some of these. But here's what I would love to hear at least 2 times a month...
1. "Hey, I'd really like to......."
The HUGE issue with us has to do with her relinquishing ownership of EVERYTHING to me. I'm the "keeper" of flame so-to-speak and it get's really tiring. Maybe this plays into my response to Corri's moneyshot.
I'll be running this by the C on Mon. Yea.
- Dave (who really despises himself when posting stuff here).
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
AltDave. I see 4 verbal invites for sex. What is wrong with that? What about W's non-verbal hints for a SR?
I gather you want more hot sex from your W. Sounds like your W can only make herself say 'bedroom time' and you want her to say "how about F'ing me." Some people can only use the cute words like 'bedroom time'.
I read your post about the attraction factor or the lack of the attraction factor and was thinking that learning to read the signals women send out is also part of the problem guys have when they want to make a connection. When it comes to women, I put myself in the not much magnetism and a poor signal reader to boot.
Obviously, the thing that bothers you is that she is making it very clear that she is initiating sex for your benefit. She is willing herself to have sex with you. She isn't wanting to have sex herself. Either you need to appreciate that she is LD and that is all she can do given the fact that she doesn't actually want to have sex with you or ?. I haven't figured this one out myself. I'll be curious to hear what your MC has to say.
Please remember that you are not despicable for posting to this BB. You may help others if not yourself.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
That was my thought too. Number 1 could go either way, depending upon delivery, but 2-4 suck. They are clearly meant to convey that she was ready to perform her duty in order to keep you happy. As a regular recipient of duty sex, I can see why that turns you off.
Dave, I found with my husband that the only way to break that habit was to call him on it every single time. Every time!
It was tedious, and I really didn't want to hurt his feelings, but it had to GO.
She is taking your temperature..wanting to know if you are going to be mad if nothing happens that night.
My H's method was to say, "How are you feeling?" while we were laying in bed. I began to cringe when I heard those words.
So I started answering that question with a question: "How are YOU feeling?"
You could say to your wife, "Do YOU want some 'bedroom' time? Is that why you're asking?" When she says No I am just doing it for you, then maybe you could ask her about the times when she does want it for herself...how does she indicate that she wants it, then?
I think my husband's biggest fear in the world is initiating sex with me. Yes, me. The easiest person on the planet. I don't get it, either. But it is REAL for him.
Perhaps the angle you could take would be to ask her which ways she would be comfortable with..what words sound like something she can hear herself saying. Help her with ideas because a vague "do it different" will sound terrifying to her.
I'm just curios... how are married people supposed to initiate? I mean, c'mon, you're married. You're not in a bar. Who else is your spouse going to pick? You aren't vying for anyone else's attention, and some imaginary person isn't vying for yours...
I understand how 'hint dropping' can grate on your very, very last nerve... we went through that crap, too. Oh, God, here comes 'The Line.'
She still doesn't want to own her sexual feelings. She wants to make it All About Dave.
He is reacting badly to that, and he should.
What does being married have to do with it? I am guessing that if she had initiated that way prior to marriage, they may not have made it this far!
It's one thing if your spouse wants to give you a gift of being willing (but not overly wanting) but it MUST be packaged in a kind way or it aint a gift.
If I am standing in the kitchen saying to H, "Do you want me to clean these dishes so that you aren't mad in the morning?", I doubt he is going to feel all warm and fuzzy inside, kwim.
I think it has a lot to do with communication, fwiw. Do I think her half-hearted come on lines are bogus? Yeah... but she will continue to do what she does unless Dave calls her on it in an empathetic and compassionate manner.
When H and I were dating, he did all the pursuing. I'm not a pursuer. Yet, when we got married, he now all of the sudden wanted ME to be the one doing the pursuing. Is that a fair expectation? Probably. Did he tell me this was going to be his expectation before we got married? No. Could I accuse him of a bait and switch? Sure.
His whole attitude toward sex changed, and I wasn't all that sure why. It is INTOXICATING all that an HD will do to grab and keep your attention during the dating phase. It all dries up and goes away the instant you say "I do." Just like all of you say that the LD desire dries up and goes away the instant "I do" is uttered.
It is a two-way street.
What we all have come to realize, here, is it doesn't really matter HOW the problem was created... what matters is, both partners acknowledge there is a problem, and what are WE going to do to fix it.
There are a lot of layers to that problem, and the only way I know how to work through the layers is through communication and trust.
Quote: 4. I was looking at the calendar and it's been 5 days, I don't want you getting wierd...you want to go upstairs?
It is about communication. It's about her communicating to her husband in a way that lets him know she is dismissive of his desires. It's highly insulting and meant to put him in his place. It's belittling. In the above remark she actually insinuates that if she doesn't give in and give sex she will have to deal with his weirdness...insanity...craziness. Hell, the next thing you know she will be rolling her eyes at him. Her style of communication is calculating. It's done on purpose and done with the intent of sending him the message that him and his sex drive are beneath her but she is willing to put out to keep from having to deal with him and his mood if he doesn't get some. It's covert emotional abuse and he has every right to be hurt and upset by it.
It's almost as if she goes out of her way to keep him from feeling warm and fuzzy. This is an adult woman with average communication skills I assume. Even an idiot could find better words that those.
How are married people supposed to communicate? With caring, concern and a genuine interest for the other person's feelings. Why shouldn't she express the same interest in him that she would if he were someone she was picking up in a bar? What is wrong with him wanting that level of interest from her...even though they are married? He is vying for his wife's attention and has every right to expect it. He has every right to expect a decent level of communication, especially when it comes to something as important as sex.
When I read Dave's post on Corri's thread my first thought was how childish to get that wrapped up in whether or not someone tried to pick you up in a bar.
Then I remembered back to the kind of damage that can be done to a person who is continually rejected by the person they want the most. I realized it wasn't childish of him. His thoughts about himself, his confusion over his own image and the apparent struggle he is having right now is a direct result of an uncaring wife who would rather dump her lack of sexuality off onto him and make him the bad guy.
She is comfortable with the present situation. She is only going to go so far when it comes to finding a solution to her own problems and then she will crawl back into her comfort zone. I bet if she knew her husband was to the point of taking off his ring in a bar she might have to let go of some of her comfort and feel a bit of his discomfort.
I agree with you that she is pulling a really crappy move on Dave with her lame lines. It is calculating. It does hurt.
HOWEVER, if he does NOT stick up for himself and call her on her behavior by communicating with her, he is as much to blame for this as she is. You cannot blame your actions in a bar on your spouse. (If she didn't treat me the way she does, I wouldn't be doing this.) That's personal accountability.
Sometimes we are ALL insensitve. Last week, my H communicated with me in a very juvenile manner and it really got to me. But as NOP so gently reminded me... look, if the partner isn't going to pick up the ball, you can get mad that you are YET AGAIN picking up the ball, or you can get over yourself and pick up the ball before things get so out of hand that we both quit the game.
Quote: How are married people supposed to communicate? With caring, concern and a genuine interest for the other person's feelings. Why shouldn't she express the same interest in him that she would if he were someone she was picking up in a bar? What is wrong with him wanting that level of interest from her...even though they are married? He is vying for his wife's attention and has every right to expect it. He has every right to expect a decent level of communication, especially when it comes to something as important as sex.
What if he is acting in a way that would make her NOT want to pick him up in a bar? What if he is expecting a certain level of commitment and behavior from her, but is not giving the same in return?
I agree with you, Cathy, but what you are talking about is when things are working well on both sides. Something isn't right in the AD Household and they have hit a backslide. That's par for the course. Stuff like this isn't like fixing a broken arm. You get it set and its done. It takes constant attention.
I'm not saying that Dave is not justified in feeling slighted. I'm not saying Dave is not entitled to feeling hurt. I'm not even saying Dave isn't 100% RIGHT. What I am saying is, there is a problem. It does not seem to be solving itself. What are you now going to do to try and fix it?
And again, I don't care WHAT she is doing, Dave's decision to take off his ring in a bar was HIS decision. I'm not saying it was right, not saying it was wrong. If he felt the need to do that, there is a PROBLEM.
He is headed back to the C because he sees there is a problem. It's the smartest thing he could possibly do. Why dump on the W or his behaviors if these things are not the issue? The issue is in supporting him in finding a solution to his problem. Which he is fully capable of doing. He's a smart guy.
