Ok folks. I have done my time in some of the other forums and have learned much. I have passed through one difficult phase in the DB crucible, now I am on to a new one and could use some insights.
My sitch… I have/had a WAW w/midlife crisis. My wife began a long distance EA with a man, that became very serious. After an intial failed attempt at C we seperated at the beginning of October. During the separation my wife continued the EA, and the depth and breadth of how involved she and the OM became was astonishing. Even with the EA being long distance, my presence in her life was totally subsumed by this man and the affair.
During the time we were separated, I under went a personal transformation, begun with the principles contained in Michele's book DR, in addition to personal therapy and a ton of introspection and work on my own. The changes were mental, emotional and physical. My wife saw that I was changing, that I was no longer the man I had been of recent years, but more like the man I had been when we married. We began to spend time with one another, and as I put into practice the techniques of DB'ing, things began to change.
My WAW asked that I move back home at beginning of December. She agreed to end the affair and we are now trying to see if we can save/recreate a loving, commited relationship. She is committed to the possibility of change in our relatioship (having seen it in me) and now wants to see if she/we can do the same. There are so many issues for us to work on, and pain to overcome.
I am having difficulty in accepting/dealing with the love/relationship/feelings that my wife had/has for the OM. To her credit, she has ended the relationship and is devoting the time and energy she used to put into that relationship, back into our marriage. She is allowing herself to feel, and acting upon, any and all positive feelings that she has for me, whereas before, she wouldn't even make room for them in her heart. But her feelings of withdrawl and grief/mourning over the loss of that relationship is palpable. When ever I ask questions about their relationship, I am sickened by the realizations of how deeply involved they had become. Sometimes in ways my wife and I never had. To hear my wife refer/speak positively about the OM in ways she never has about me or our marriage is a difficult thing to accept. I am intimidated by their relationship, and heart broken to hear her speak of how fulfilling and meaningful her relationship with the OM was, in comparison to our 10 year marriage. She does not throw these things in my face, she is not doing any of this to be cruel, and I am not imagining the worst. They are real and I am the one that opens the discussion. Sometimes not knowing these details, is actually more difficult. After all, the imagination is a powerful thing.
We are working on things. We are both in therapy individually and will be restarting couples counseling next month. If you were to see us together, it would appear we are doing surprisingly well. But I know it is not completely true; the shell on the surface is pretty thin. My ability to cope, her ability to get over the OM, our ability to forgive and begin to repair the damage we have done to each other, is so very fragile. I just don't know what to do about these feelings regarding the affair and the OM. I have such a hard time not feeling like a second place prize, when I hear her speak of the OM and their relationship. I know that in the end, she did choose to stay, but I feel like it was more a choice of necessity, or pragmatism than about love (2 kids, 10 years together, family pressures, guilt etc.). If the field of circumstances were even between myself and the OM, I feel like I would be typing a very different letter.
Please, I need some insight from others who have dealt with this, and gotten past where I am now. How did you do it? What did you do to get past those thoughts and feelings? I know that many wives have gone through this, and your input is valuable. But are there any husbands out there, who have survived this, I would love to hear from you. Tell me your successes, and your experiences. I need to gain a different perspective than my own.
Although my H's A was not nearly as extended, he did have a pretty involved EA (which lead to a brief PA).
Yeah, it sucks to hear. You're going to for awhile. The good news is, eventually that phase will wear off, and she'll be able to put it in better perspective. Unfortunately, right now she is still mourning that relationship. And, to be honest, she will need to go through that process and deal with it before you guys can move forward. Sucks, yes, but you will both be okay if you just have patience with this.
Also...at this point, it helps to try and do some fun, light-hearted stuff together. The new, good memories will definately help.
In the first days of coming home, I tried to support my wife through her grief and withdrawl. Kinda sick I know. But I also wanted to just let her know that she could talk to me, that I would listen, no matter what. I didn't want to shut down this attempt at communication and I needed to prove to her that she could trust me enough to open up to me. At times, the things that have come out feel like a 100lb stones on my heart.
How long did the mourning phase last in your case? I know there are no set time limits, but what has been your experience or information on that? Did you ever feel like a concilation prize? How did you not let those details derail you or get you down? Did your husbands EA/PA end on its own, or did you discover it, and demand it end?
One of the hardest things for my wife (and me) is knowing that her A didn't really "end" on its own. They didn't fall out of love, or out grow one another. The OM is still there, still loves her, and would take her back in an instant. He totally left the door open for her, the "I will always love you and be here for you if…" speech. For my wife its like having booze in the house, and trying to stay sober. He's only a phone call or an email away.
We are both trying to build new, good memories and experiences, while trying to avoid familiar, trap ladden ways of relating to one another. We are reconnecting with one another, and are kind of in that "Honeymoon" phase. But I can already start to feel somethings are beginning to shift.
Quote: In the first days of coming home, I tried to support my wife through her grief and withdrawl. Kinda sick I know.
Not sick at all. Hurts you right now, yes, but helps the M longterm.
Quote: How long did the mourning phase last in your case? I know there are no set time limits, but what has been your experience or information on that? Did you ever feel like a concilation prize? How did you not let those details derail you or get you down? Did your husbands EA/PA end on its own, or did you discover it, and demand it end?
This one's complicated. We have been seperated twice. The first time was brief--three weeks total. He was in a pretty involved EA in the months leading up to it, which wen PA during the sep. (Maybe two encounters, is my understanding.) This was before I found DB. I went dark on him, and he begged me for another chance. I had had my suspicions about xow, but hadn't been sure. He told me what had happened the day after we reconciled, and I told him he had to cut off all contact if he wanted to make a go with me. In this case, I think it worked because he came pursuing me to reconcile. (Called me constantly for two days, went to my parents' house, etc) The withdrawal in this case was nasty. He kept defending her, which really, really tore me up. (Of course, I didn't know enough at the time to not attack her. ) But she screwed it all up, kept coming into his bar. I'm guessing maybe a couple of months, but I honestly can't recall, and don't particularly care to remember.
The second time, his EA wasn't nearly as bad. I was forced out of the apartment, and he moved in a FF as a roommate. I know when she moved in he had a crush on her. (He admitted it.) She turned out to be crazy. (I'm not exaggerting. She would "rewrite" events to suit her, would "forget" stuff that happened...threatened me at the end...a real nutjob.) Although this wasn't nearly as bad, and even with her being a nut, it still took some time for him to quit missing her. (Kept saying he wanted his friend back. What he really wanted was his fantasy of that friendship.) This time, I didn't demand the end of any contact, let him play out how he wanted. Still took a couple of months. (And some really, really out there behavior on her part.)
So...it just takes time. Unfortunately. The best thing you can do is let her feel what she feels, and not criticize her (or the OM). She did come home to you. You must have something over him. It may also help to know that he R doesn't sound like it got past fantasy-land. If you give her time, and support her, she will come around on her own time.
Quote: We are both trying to build new, good memories and experiences, while trying to avoid familiar, trap ladden ways of relating to one another.
Sounds like a good plan. It helps that she is willing to work with you, as well.
Quote: We are reconnecting with one another, and are kind of in that "Honeymoon" phase. But I can already start to feel somethings are beginning to shift.
There's definately a honeymoon part to this. In my case, everything came crashing down around me. I had a real crisis of my own...complete with walkaway thoughts and all. Not trying to worry you, just be aware that you spent a lot of time simply functioning, and that means there's still a lot of unresolved feelings.
Take it one day at a time. That's the best advice I can give you.
Thanks for the input Nevanna, it is appreciated. Keep it coming.
This week is a rough one so far. In a recent conversation about the EA, wife told me of her "terms of endearment" that OM and wife called each other. She claimes that she kept the one she uses for me sacred. (This was just tremendously painful) . Friday, in a phone call, she called me by one of his pet names, by accident. CRUSHING!!! This week we have had her mother in town, so I already feel like a huge third wheel (always happens), and there has been no "us" time. Really don't like feeling this way. Feeling very insecure, and not feeling "chosen". Can't really talk about it or do anything with my Mother-in-Law here.
Rough night last night. Can't shut out the painful thoughts and feelings that have resurfaced. So much so, I don't really want to spend another night in the same bed with my wife until I can get a better grip on my feelings. I am just feeling way too needy and desperate. Not an attractive combination. Don't want our "moments" together to be out of desperate neediness, but out of genuine feelings. Tough to stick to this, in the long and lonely hours of the night.
Frankly, I am in a very similar situation. My H had an EA from March - August 2004. It was a most stressful time, but we are on the mend now. My biggest issue is trust. I am working on it, but I can't seem to help checking his cell for OW number, and his email. I know I shouldn't, and I have decided to try not to.
Anyway, not sure what advice I can give except to have loads of patience. It's the only thing that got me through this - so far.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
Things have been all over the map lately. I have been reading "Sage" advice (wow, wish I was where she is now) and it helps. I seem to bounce from feeling crummy about myself and needing/wanting reassurance to gritty determination that I can stick it out with confidence. But man, there is a lot of territory in between.
My wife and I are not feeling very good about each other lately. I have had a hard time dealing with the realities of the sitch. It is really hard to live with someone that you love, but doesn't love you back. Your self-esteem/confidence takes a beating. It's like trying to hold the most precious stone in your hand, but the stone is 500 degrees. You can't let go, but sometimes the pain is too much to handle day after day. When I get like this, I am not fun to be around and don't exactly inspire loving feelings in my wife. So she in turns pulls back farther, unaware that I am hurting and need some assurance from her that I am not totally worthless. But nothing comes.
This exact thing played out the other night, and I told her how hard it is sometimes living this way. W didn't seem to be very understanding. (Body language, demeanor, non-sequiturs about the past etc.) so it was not a feel good-improve the relationship-moment. I just wish I didn't feel so damn needy for WOA right now.
Asking for assurances/WOA right now ends up feeling artificial, like I am forcing her, so I don't ask. I want them to come spontaneously (I know how controlling that sounds, how I need to soothe myself and all that, but come on… if I was that strong, I wouldn't be here now.)
She says her feelings for me are not coming back as fast as she thought they would (and in turn the feelings for the OM are not going away as quickly either). She says that she is having to consciously choose to act in loving ways, and mostly that it doesn't even occur to her to say or do the little loving things that bring people together. I was doing my part (full-force) and it was working (sort of), but it felt very lopsided (she had been very passive in our relationship) so I have stopped being the initiator of loving acts/moments. I am no cold fish, but I want her to have a turn at being "in charge" of trying to improve the relationship. But as you can read, it's not really working. So do I keep trying and be patient, or change tactics? Do I focus on being happy, rather than right? Or in doing this am I short changing myself in the long run? Confusing times.
It almost seems like we are loosing our optimism, our PMA about each other, and our chances of success. I know my behavior hasn't helped, but how does one do this, having never done it before?
thanks again for your visit to my thread! It's great that you and your w have come back together after her ea...I am sorry that you guys are both going thru a rough time right now though I suppose it is to be expected after all you have been through.
My first reaction is that perhaps both you and your w are trying to hard to regain feelings. I'm not trying to be glib but I picture the two of you watching a pot, waiting for it to boil. Or, perhaps a more apt analogy would be that you both keep pulling the turkey out of the oven to see if it is done...you do know how long it takes to cook a turkey that way, right?
SO...my suggestion is ACTION. What makes you guys feel good together? What makes you laugh? What makes you feel energetic? Start DOING stuff together and I suspect the FEELING will follow along.
How about some funny movies?
I think you mentioned in one of your threads that you've been losing weight -- how about exercising with her? Walking? Hiking? Playing golf?
A day trip into town for a museum? Go see some sports? Any things on the list of things that either of you have been wanting to do but you haven't?
Now, don't go rushing headlong into all of these things at once because that can seem awfully pursuing...suggest a movie and a walk this week? Map out a half day trip? Something along those lines.
Also, if w isn't in the mode to say "yes" right now, you might plan to do these things anyway...bring home a super funny video or go out for a brisk walk -- you'll come back energized and that will impact her, I'll bet!
I'd also suggest not embarking on any "temperature taking R talks" for the near future (like weeks, months!). Just spend some time together doing fun things.
What do you think?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
The weekend went pretty good. I got home on friday and my wife met me at the door and had planned a romantic dinner for the two of us. She had sent the kids to my mothers, so we were alone. Then after dinner we went and saw the movie "Sideways". There were a couple of moments during the movie when some comments were made about infidelity or something like that, and she reached out and took my hand and gave it an extra squeeze. The evening went fabulous, she was thoughtful, attentive and outgoing. Couldn't have asked for more.
Saturday was really busy with kids stuff and my wife needed to work, so I took the kids in the afternoon and ran some errands. Later that night we watched a family movie together and called it a night.
Morning came and right away my wife wasn't even out of the bed, and was complaining about hating sundays. Sundays are always difficult days for me, due to the fact that my wife no longer practices our faith, and I get depressed during church (too many happy couples). She commented how we seem to fight on sundays, and I always act weird. (Since I came home, we have never fought, but we do get into deep R talks on sundays) I told her that I felt the same and reminded her that I have already explained why, and that I am sorry that it bothered her, and that I didn't like feeling that way either. I went on to try and be positive and not be "weird". The day was good, no tense moments and nothing to feel bad about.
Yesterday I got home early (didn't work out-class ran late) and went grocery shopping by myself for the family. Later asked W for a backrub (backache from all the grocery bags) and she agreed. Things went well from there. Wow, the past couple of day's have been great!
SAGE: Thanks so much for the advice Sage. As always right on track. Way too much "internal relationship temperature taking" on my part, and then being bummed that the "turkey" wasn't cooking as fast as I thought it should.
Others have pointed out that I have a tendency to not recognize the positives that are happening. So I spent the weekend trying to do just that and boy by all apprearances, that is the way to go. So I have a goal, be positive and let the turkey cook. It will take as long as it takes.
W and I try to do things together, but I see we (I) need to do them with a better PMA. Being creative and trying new things could help as well.
Thanks a bunch and I will keep posting to let you know what is happening.
Well things have been going ok. W and I have had a couple of counseling sessions, the first a get-to-know ya, and the second we finally started to discuss things. I have to admit, that I have been struggling with the whole staying positive/focus on the good thing. I realize that a couple of months ago I would have crawled across broken glass to be where I am at now. But damn its hard not to want more, and yet be grateful for what you have now.
During the session, W talked about how I am too needy right now, and that she feels that sometimes I smother her, (needing physical affection). Its a dynamic that is very present in our relationship (she withdraws, I pursue). It was that way with our communication, but I have changed that. But I think I may have just substituted one for the other. I have to try and give her space, but I get so lonely sometimes. I also pointed out, that hey, you and your EA with another man, might have something to do with me feeling this way, remember? I promised to try and relax, but that she could start throwing me a bone (hugs, small things) and cut me a little slack too. We'll see where this goes. But I am trying to keep my promise.
Valentines day came and went. We had spent the weekend doing "Couple" type things (went to a dance, bowling with friends) but on monday, I made a valentine and brought home sushi (her personal fav.) My wife?…did nothing. I "Acted as if…" and we went on to have a good evening. Getting stiffed didn't seem to bother me at the time, but lately it has started to bug me. If she had still been in the "Other Relationship" I know she would have celebrated the day somehow. I have a hard time not "personalizing" this.
We have our 11th anniversary coming up, and it makes me unsure of what to do. I am tempted to not do anything, and see if she decides its worth celebrating. It could really backfire on me though. I don't know what to do.
My W is going through a major mid-30's MLC+recovering from and EA, and she is really changing. As a result, she is changing alot of things about herself, that do have an impact on our relationship. She has left our faith, taken on a new, more demanding job, changed several personal habits, and now is taking a promotion that has the potential to further her career, but could also put more strain on our relationship. It made me start to wonder, How can I be supportive of her personal growth and changes, and not be concerned that these changes appear to be taking us farther apart? Growth and change is part of every marriage, but sometimes you compromise, or make different choices, for the benefit of the relationship.
I am concerned that these changes, although not out-right deal breakers, are only setting us on a course that eventually will result in a very wide gulf between us. One that will be to large (and too late) to overcome. Is this the beginning of the end for us? How do I reach to my wife and let her know I believe in her and want her to be happy, but I am worried that are not working at being closer, but growing farther apart?
) But she screwed it all up, kept coming into his bar. I'm guessing maybe a couple of months, but I honestly can't recall, and don't particularly care to remember.
That's the best advice I can give you. 