Looking backward...but only to move forward TWO

[Livnlearn]

Sage

I don't want to pile up more doubt on top of everything, but I do want to address one issue that many of us have experienced, and by this I am NOT saying it is the case here, mind, you. Just thought it pertinent to what people have written.

From what I have read in so many places, including on this BB, the bomb is often preceded by a period of closeness, all manner of tokens of affection, assurances of love, lavish celebrations of anniversaries, buying of a new house. etc.

In my case, I recevied an email letter from H while he was abroad in February, addressed to me as "My wonderful wife", telling me about how he loved the project he was doing, and signing off "All my love". My H is not a lovey dovey sort normally, so the 'my wonderful wife' part was particularly notable, and I treasured that letter in my heart when I went abroad in turn in March/April. The bomb was dropped within an hour of my return from my travels.

The timimg of it was bewildering and had me completely blindsided. And of course, we had just bought our new house and moved in to it barely six months previously.

So, when reconciliation takes place, even when we hear the reassurances, is there not still a slight doubt that 'it doesn't mean or guarantee a thing'? How does one get over that one?

This is an open question, not directed only at Sage.

Sage, I think the fact that your H is consciously keeping you in the loop, is a positive.

Livnlearn

[NikNak]

So, when reconciliation takes place, even when we hear the reassurances, is there not still a slight doubt that 'it doesn't mean or guarantee a thing'? How does one get over that one?

gosh, that is a tough one.

sage, i am sorry that it's a hard time for you right now, but well you know how much of these feelings are things we bring about ourselves.

how many times we have to remember that so much of this is "choice" plain and simple. we have a choice to feel negative, suspicious, uncomfortable or whatever. we have to also remember how much of those negative feelings are based on pased happenings, that is the only thing we can compare it to

your negativity, no matter what brought it up will only snowball into more negativity. so put up that stop sign and focus on the positives.

IF anything is amiss, it will come out, and you are not a fool to have believed - the other party is the fool to have trampled on your faith - remember that faith is the assured expectation of realities not seen - have faith that your hubby is on the up and up - protrude that faith in all you do, and your hubby will rise to meet those expectations

just like we all do

did that even make sense? well, it made sense to me in my feeble ole brain

niknak

[sage]

You guys are all so great. thanks to each and every one of you for rallying around me.

I'm at school so I can't respond at length -- I'll respond to each of you as soon as I can....(later today, I hope).

I'm doing ok but still battling with myself...kind of an unpleasant mix of negative reminiscing combined with beating myself up! Lovely.

So...as NN suggests...let's focus on the positives! Here are a few off the top of my head:

1. My r is stronger and lovelier than it ever has been
2. h is much more open and responsive to me than ever before
3. we had a great date last night -- good food and drink, lots of cool "law school stories", etc.
4. I'm meeting up with him later today to have a "fun date"
5. I've got all of you!
6. I'm stronger, happier, healthier, more focused and more blessed as a result of DB'ing.

I'm sure there's tons more...

TTYL, Sage

[sage]

Oh -- I forgot -- Cainer, as always, has words of wisdom:

Yesterday is over. You can't go back to it. Tomorrow isn't here yet,
so there's no escape in that direction. That leaves you trapped; a
prisoner of the present. That situation is never going to change!
Always, there'll be something behind you that you can't quite reach,
and something ahead that is tantalisingly unattainable. There's only
one solution. You have to learn to like whatever's happening right
here, right now. The way to make the future brighter - and the past
less of a problem - is to take each moment as it comes, this
weekend.

Sage

[minnie1]

Hi Sage,

hmmmm..your Cainer cast....equanimity comes to mind...

Live for today Sage!!! You are wonderful, you have a wonderful R with a wonderful, loving, caring, supportive H. Enjoy!!!

Thinking of you my friend,
Minnie

[sage]

Hi everyone,
Happy Monday (lol!) It's been a busy one and I'm leaving for school soon...this week SHOULD be more relaxed than last week, so I'm hoping to get caught up on people's sitchs.

Things are quite good. I had school on Friday and Satuday. Friday night was supposed to be the night of the get together that raised all of my fears -- turned out that it got put off because it wasn't going to be the "casual social event" that he thought this time -- so, FF suggested that h come with her a different time to meet everyone.

When h found out he wasn't going, he sent lots of cute emails about how he could now have a date with me, etc. Very nice and more WOA from him. I'm completely blanking on what we ended up doing.

Saturday was a big day for h -- he got elected to next year's executive committee for the law review! He was at school all day waiting on pins and needles! Once he got elected, he had to participate in the rest of the elections so it was a LONG day! I got out of school fairly early and went and picked him up. We had some champagne and relaxed and talked and had a quiet night at home. I could feel comfort level between us increase by leaps and bounds -- is it really that I read into his stress and react so negatively to it? arrgh.

Anyway, we had lots of relaxation and some really lovely words between us...I guess you could say that it was a borderline "r talk" -- just kind of reaffirming that we're here for each other.

Another thing...h went online to look for a menu for us to order take out. Before he did, he apparently read his e-mail because he mentioned a few things that he had received -- then he sort of flipped out a bit and said 'oh, no! did it bother you that I read my e-mail? I'm really sorry!" He was completely apologetic but TBH, it hadn't even occurred to me to be upset -- the times when I've gotten upset in the past were when it felt like he was hiding reading his e-mail or rushing to it when we were in the midst of doing something-- this time he was totally open and natural and sharing and I wasn't upset at all. It DOES take two to make a sitch!

Sunday I did homework for a lot of the day and then we went to a Super Bowl party. Definitely a good time.

Yesterday afternoon h asked me if I wanted to go out with FF and her h. sometime -- certainly a nice gesture to be open with me, include me in the friendship, etc. I think I talked over him a bit when he made the suggestion (I was nervous about the whole topic) so I felt a little weird about that. anyway, I said that sounded like fun. I'll leave it to him to make those arrangements.

H2H

I do know where this feeling comes from and your queasiness over the 'new name'/event. Yes, a lot of it comes from the A, but I do think a lot, if not most of it, comes from inside you. Your H. seems to be very careful to 'ask permission' to attend, to assure you he won't be late, etc. He is tiptoeing around you so that you are reassured. But deep down, Sage you don't seem to believe that YOU are worth being faithful, open & honest to. I think that pit in your stomach will go away when you finally believe in YOU.

Oh, I know well the beating our esteem & confidence took in these sitches - and it is far easier for me to say believe in yourself, than it is to actually believe in myself. But doesn't it come down to that? We know we are bright, fun, attractive, hardworking, conscientious women with a whole big R tool box to help us. I doubt we will ever be in that 'state' we were before all this happened - and so I think we just have to believe that we are fine, that we are worthy, that we will not fall like that again.

YES. You got it, friend. This IS about the way I feel about ME in so many ways. I've noticed myself "trash talking" about me a bunch over the last few weeks -- mainly that I've been feeling like I've lapsed on some of the stuff that I've worked hard to change (listening, patience, etc) and I've been ranting at myself "see? you're no different than you were 3 years ago. Why do you expect the outcome to be different?", etc. I get down on myself, start picking at h, get afraid, get distant and then wonder why things don't feel "good".

Why does it feel like such a constant challenge for me to believe in the goodness of what we have?

Part of my R talk with h was peripherally around this subject...mainly that I needed to start believing in myself a whole heap more.

Minnie --

FWIW: I think that your H does a great job of trying to reassure you. What if you simply let him?

YES. You are right. h does try to reassure me in many different ways. Your words helped me a lot over the weekend...I tried to stay "present" when h was offering WOA.

Karen Hey! How are ya?

Have you ever noticed that how you feel about H depends totally on yourself. For example, one week you're feeling all lovey dovey/open and you think H is the greatest. Then the next week, you feel critical and so you start picking out some negatives that H is doing i.e. being quiet, distant, sad. It occured to me that here I am the one feeling distant, critical, etc. which in turn colors how I see H.

Same goes for the pit in your stomach. Only YOU can control the pit. You KNOW you can make it go away at times. What are you doing differently when you don't have the pit? What are you getting by allowing yourself to feel the pit?

YUP! You are completely right about it being w/in my control...I don't KNOW what I'm doing when I feel ok -- keeping busy? tending to myself? doing a good mix of meeting h's needs and my own? I really need to think about what makes it "work" for me!

Frankly -- Thanks for the visit and the amazingly kind words. I will seek your sitch out this week when I have a bit more time. Come find me if I haven't.

Unsure, Slowly -- Thanks, friends, for the support! You guys are always there and know just what to say to keep my chin up. thanks for the reminders of how far h and I have come.

Livnlearn --

So, when reconciliation takes place, even when we hear the reassurances, is there not still a slight doubt that 'it doesn't mean or guarantee a thing'? How does one get over that one?

No easy answer for this...my gut thoughts are that WOA are a piece of a bigger puzzle that also couples actions, etc, and paints a bigger picture of how things are. Of course, there's nothing that says that all of the WOAs and positives are necessarily going to keep another bomb at bay, is there? Nothing IS guaranteed -- I suppose all you can do is give it your best shot (hardly comforting).

I found this while cleaning out my email today -- it's from 12/10/04:

'It is more shameful to distrust our friends than to be deceived by
them.' So observed Confucius, the ancient sage and philosopher. Whilst
we should never allow ourselves to believe everything we are told, we
must be careful not to get into a state of continual suspicion. We can
end up with our guard raised so high, that nothing can get through to
us. And if we look for things to be quizzical of in this world, it
never takes us long to find them. This weekend, you may as well be
generous with the benefit of the doubt. In the end, this will benefit
you.

NikNak -- HEY!

how many times we have to remember that so much of this is "choice" plain and simple. we have a choice to feel negative, suspicious, uncomfortable or whatever. we have to also remember how much of those negative feelings are based on pased happenings, that is the only thing we can compare it to

your negativity, no matter what brought it up will only snowball into more negativity. so put up that stop sign and focus on the positives.

IF anything is amiss, it will come out, and you are not a fool to have believed - the other party is the fool to have trampled on your faith - remember that faith is the assured expectation of realities not seen - have faith that your hubby is on the up and up - protrude that faith in all you do, and your hubby will rise to meet those expectations

Of course this makes sense! I've seen over and over and over again that "what I focus on expands" so positive should be trouncing negative BIG TIME!



Gotta run to a meeting!

Thanks again, everyone..you guys rule.

Sage

[sage]

Had school last night -- it went well! I felt like I had done a good job on the homework and understood what he was talking about. Of course, it helps that I have 7 more class meetings (+1 for the other class). Nice light at the end of the tunnel!!!!!!

h went to a hockey game with his friend. He called around 10pm to say that he was going to be a lot later than expected. It is so nice/considerate when he does that - I told him that. He got home after midnight and woke me up to say good night. I managed to stay away for about 15 seconds

Slept in this AM (ok, 'til 6:30!) so we'll go to the gym tonight. I had thought we might go to a movie but maybe tomorrow night instead...I think we're both sleepy.

I forgot to mention another positive yesterday...I mentioned to h that I wanted to see a ballet that's coming in March. Asked him if it was OK if I bought a ticket. He suggested that he come with me! VERY COOL to have him showing that kind of interest!

Sage

[sage]

Hi all,

busy days at work are keeping me from the BB! Nothing horrendous..just lots of schedules/resource plans/etc.

Things at home are good. Went to the gym both Tues and Weds at night then out for casual food. Tonight h has school -- I usually meet up with him afterwards -- the weather here has been iffy so we're in "wait and see" mode on that.

We've got the ambitious plan of seeing 3 movies this weekend (trying to see all the major oscar category contenders!). I guess we'll squeeze in some homework too.

Sage

[unsure70]

Hi Sage---I need a huge favor! I know how busy you are with school and work and maintaining your M but I could really use your input. Unlike your H mine won't admit to his internet affair and he justifies what he is doing as harmless...obviously it's not harmless or I wouldn't feel like crap. If you get a chance this weekend or over the next week if you could give me some words of wisdom I would appreciate it. If you don't have time I understand...I know a lot of people ask your advice. I am just coming to the end of my rope and don't think I can take much more.
Here's a link if you can.

Am I hopeless??

Thanks,
Unsure

[sage]

Haven't done THIS for a while!:


My 12th thread

At this point in the R, we were 1 year post bomb. h had recently struck up a school friendship with a ff and I was struggling with that a bit...but there were big positives, too.
I had a massage on the 1st anniversary of the bomb. I have to admit that I still feel very self-protective even today. I’m not sure how to “break” that.:

My Saturday AM of pampering was FUN Had a massage and a manicure and pedicure. I didn't do the shopping I thought I would do...just seemed more relaxing to come home and nest.

A kind of strange thing happened after my massage. The masseuse came out to talk with me. She asked me if I had any questions. I said "No" (I was too relaxed!). She asked again Finally I said "Is there something that you want to talk with me about?". She hesitated and said "well, I know you said that you carry most of your stress in your neck. Well, I can feel a tightness in your whole body. And, it doesn't really feel like stress to me...it feels like guardedness...as though you are trying to protect something by closing off your body. I don't know...I could just feel a very self-protective tension in you...and it seems as though it might be keeping you from feeling really free."

I asked her what she suggested...she said so much of what I'm doing already...(eat right, exercise, meditation,etc).

My strong sense right now is that I need to let things be, let myself be, just relax. I think that trying to FIX this isn't going to be helpful. I think I need to just continue connecting with h...by doing the things that make us feel good and close...and just see if I can open myself up a bit every day. I'm still feeling afraid of being hurt but I think that's ok for now.

Here were some thoughts I had about how to deal when h was mentioning a FF and I was struggling with insecurity. Could be useful today!:

INSTEAD of internally freaking out (and to be HONEST -- I'd actually been doing GREAT with this until today. I mean, really, really great -- didn't even feel any flutters! And even today I didn't feel like something was going ON I just felt like "for crying out loud...WHY do I have to deal with this?")...anyway...I digressed...everytime he mentions her name, I will take it as a reminder that I should fill h's love tank...speak his LL (what the hell is it???? Acts of Service? QT?). I will delightfully and lovingly be reminded that his needs NEED to be fulfilled and who better to do that than his fabulous, gorgeous, self-confident, smart wife???

Wise words from LL!:

neither of you are the same person as you were in the past...believe it or not you BOTH have learned and grown from this experience.

Instead of looking for reasons why what happend happend (sheesh I hate to use the same word twice)...keep looking for ways to keep things from happening.

I know I know...how can I keep it from happening if I don't know why it happend.

let go of that line of thinking...going back there and trying to figure it all out isn't going to get you to where you want to be...stay in the now and work toward something that is better.

More from LL!:

here's a way to look at it..if you cling to the "old" it will be everlasting...viewing things through your "old" glasses will no doubt keep some of that "old" around. Keeping on your "new" glasses and your new way of looking at and reacting (or not) to things is going to keep the "new" here for the long run...and yes sage..it's real! no one is going to say to you..ok you can wake up now.

and if you keep looking over your shoulder you are bound to trip and not see what is in front of you.

Deep thoughts from Sage about Sage:

I had kind of a flash of insight this AM (glad I didn't hurt anyone in the process!)...it was a combo of a few things...last night I felt a little sad...no real reason...just some sadness...and then when I was trying to fall asleep I got so MAD at myself for feeling down...

This morning...on the way to the gym...I was still beating myself up over .. I remembered how nervous I felt yesterday about posting my ASSumptions on my DB thread...scared that if h read them he would think "well, this is more of the same...she'll never be happy"...even a little nervous that YOU GUYS would think "she's still stuck"...and then it hit me....

my resistance to the way that I feel sometimes. my beating myself up...my fears that h will get angry at me for still feeling sad, hurt, whatever some times....heck, it's all getting in the way of ME accepting ME.

It's getting in the way of ME feeling JUST FINE the way that I am.

It's getting in the way of ME feeling comfortable with myself...and being/acting/doing things that express my comfort.

What you resist, persists.

Here it is...
this is me.
sometimes I'm still sad.
sometimes I'm still angry.
sometimes I'm still confused.
sometimes I make mistakes in my actions.
sometimes I make ASSumptions...about myself, about others.
sometimes I have expectations.
sometimes I over think things.
sometimes I'm scared.

But MOST of the time? Most of the time I'm happier than I have ever been...in my new marriage, in my present, loving, delightful husband...in his hard work...in mine...

That's just the way it is, the way that I am.

it changes. I change. whoop...there I go again!

I'm doing the best I can.

I'm exactly where I need to be in terms of my "me-ness", my healing, my state of mind.

A few days ago I was thinking about h's a. and my dad's leaving...and I thought "how could they have been so indifferent to me? or worse, so hateful?"

But...don't I treat myself with indifference? self-hatred?

This AM I was bemoaning...Why can't h accept me as I am -- all the overthinking, all the emotions, all the me-ness?

And then I thought...have I accepted myself?

I've been fighting myself. Beating myself up.

How about I take that edge off of it?

Sounds like a plan.

I'm gonna keep letting my actions represent my best self ... (I've been doing quite well at this!)

No "time bomb" feelings for h, I hope.

Here's something that was in AARP magazine (the author is talking about not having kids...)...it was interesting to me that I found this TODAY:

" The struggle ended when I stopped struggling. That is, I stopped trying so hard not to be sad. I realized and accepted that I'd always be sad about it. And I began to look around me. Who isn't sad about something missed in life? Or about something terrible that has been endured? "

Maybe this will help someone who is married to someone who won’t do it “by the book”:

Quote:


Your H seems to be the ideal post A husband!



well....that's certainly a mixed blessing, no?

Honestly? My h has been wonderful but he hasn't been the "text book" post-A "gotta do this or you're doomed to failure" guy....

IOW, the first time I read "After the Affair" I wept because I knew that many of the things in there were things that h just wouldn't do....

We've struggled mightily with my "need" for words and reassurances and his "need" to be trusted w/o them.

It's been slow and scary. It's taken some tremendous effort on both parts...particularly in the area of just "letting the other be".

It's my hope that the pace, the hard work, the learning process has made this all sustainable....

I'm a very lucky woman. I do hope that he views himself as a lucky man.

And I grateful that I've grown new ways to see and appreciate all that he does for me...that was the biggest key for me...to "hear" with different ears.

Sage