Just read "The proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" to see if the book would be good for the wife. I agree with most everything Dr. Laura says in the book, especially the part of how men are very simple, and how women are very complex. She also says that men have very few tools for making their relationships better, and I agree. I feel like I have virtually nothing that I can change that will make a significant change in my marriage. The premise of the book is that relationships change MUCH EASIER when the LD woman is LEADING the changes. Dr. Laura has even been asked when she is going to write a book aimed at the HD men (like me) on how to fix our marriages and she basically said "What would be the point. It does not work that way". Basically, she is taking advantage of biology, HD men will change in just about anyway for a women that is fulfilling their sex needs. If the women starts giving the guy as much sex as he can handle, she can get him to change/fix just about anything. The reverse does not happen. When HD men try to improve the relationship, the LD women has virtually NO biology urging her along. I guess the best way to describe her thoughts using PM principals is that the man and women are not in separate row boats, the guy is in a rowboat and she is in a 150 foot yacht. Changes by the yacht are obviously going to have MAJOR impact on the row boat, but the rowboat can do very little to change the course of the yacht.
I hate to say it, but this is exactly the way I feel. I know I can only change me, so I must fix whatever I can. Then I have already made my needs known, and I must continue to make them better known. But then all the balls are in her court. I am completely at her mercy except for divorce. There is absolutely nothing that I can do that will directly improve my marriage, improvement can only come from her. I guess that this is why Dr. Laura says that men do not have the tools to fix a marriage. They are going against biology, whereas the LD women would actually be using biology to her advantage. Literally, women can get anything they want from a man that they hold in their hands so to speak.
I think I have seen this in other books and webpages as well. They tell us guys to fix and remove all the marriage busters, and then the "natural" sex drive of the women will return, but what happens for those many women who have no natural sex drive? The guy can fix, and fix, and fix things and get absolutely nowhere until the women makes a huge effort to FAKE the sex drive. Am I getting this wrong? Has any LD women who had no sex drive actually see their sex drive return?
This sucks feeling like I have no power over my own happiness.
P.S., please don't flame me to badly. I am just feeling more down about this then usual, especially since reading this book.
I know what it feels like to want your marriage to change and simply not know what it is within you that you can change that will help the situation.
That's why I've urged you before to really look objectively at your situation to see what it is that you think she thinks you could do better. Now...it's really hard to look at things from her perspective (I know that)...that's what makes that task soooo difficult.
When my H's therapist asked me to do that very same thing I thought "Hell! I don't know, I do everything I can! I cook, I clean, I do the laundry, I shop for groceries....I'm a great mother to our son, he's got sex anytime he wants it...what more can I do?!!! There's thousands of men who'd love a wife like me!"
That's when he said "of course you do all those things" but there's obviously something he needs...that he's not communicating to you...that perhaps he doesn't even realize he needs." See that's the key (with my LD) anyway...finding that need (what I call key need) no matter how silly it appears and doing your damndest to meet it....then give it time and see if their demeanor changes at all.
I don't know if you remember or not, but I posted quite some time back that I discovered my LDH really responds better to my making that extra effort to keep the house spotless...not just picked up....spotless. I didn't realize until I made that extra effort (that was the only thing I could think of that I could do better for him) that one of his needs of "feeling taken care of" was met by my making that extra effort.
Now he's not turned into a sexual dynamo....but he's much more open to communication now...he's becoming for affectionate...and we're actually having discussions about sex now that we'd never have had before.
So I repeat...is there ANYTHING you can think of that your wife thinks you could do better?
Really not trying to beat a dead horse here...just imparting something that's working for me in hopes it may work for you too
Cemar, I think that you actually have more options than you let on... Yes if you "fix" yourself, then the ball is in her court. But I think just doing something different--other than what you have done in the past--can have results as well. Namely you can TELL her what a profound effect this is having on you and your love and commitment to the marriage. Then you can reiterate that sentiment in a week or two. And then again in another week or so.
In short, you must do as Hairy said and find your balls and TELL HER what is going on. She has no idea the stakes are as high as they are...she could be any of the LD wives that you see on this site lamenting the fact that they did not get it until their spouse either took a lover or left them.
You must practice honesty and forthrightness and stop selling yourself short. You are wanting to converse with her and use vague terms like "better marriage" and hope that she understands what you are saying and what the consequences will be if she continues her current plan of INaction.
I don't see this workin.
I think that, if you really want to regain intimacy with your W, you will have to communicate with her what it is you want and what will happen if you two can't start working together towards a sex life. You will have to hold her to her promises and be willing to call her on it, when she wants to renegotiate the terms out of laziness and/or selfishness.
Along the way you will have to take a good hard look at yourself and pay close attention to see if there are any areas in which she consistently asks you for change. If she does, do it.
I guess I am confused as to how you think you can have a noncommunicative marriage with your wife and think that, somehow someway, things will get better. This is not likely to happen!
It is all well and good to read books like Dr. Laura's and know that IF you had a motivated LD wife she could really transform things but it is a bit like me reading that same book and giving the techniques a try. DOH! Wait!! I already do all that and it doesn't necessarily lead to a blissful life for me, either. The books are useful in gleaning bits of info that you can use in your own situation but they can really be hurtful and a major BUMMER if you can't detach enough from them to realize that your situation is completely different.
You don't have a motivated LDW. So stop torturing yourself!
Try telling her what's really going on inside you and see what happens.
In all this time...and all the books you have read...it is the only tactic that you have never given any real thought.
We'd either end up drinking too much and bawling.....or drinking too much and dancing on the bar.
Ahem. NOT that I've ever done either of those things.
So you like the way I think huh. Was it the "ooh balls" comment, LOLOL! Just kidding...if you ever come up north, let me know and we will get together. I'll do the same if I am ever in OK. We'll just have to remember to behave.
I don't know if you have read alot of what Mrs.NOP has posted. I think she really has a very indepth understanding of what a lot of us go through. I think the reason why you are running into a brick wall is because there is some need and resentment that your wife has that she isn't telling your or that she doesn't even know her self. I think if you can find that you will start seeing a lot of success.
Quote: Just read "The proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" to see if the book would be good for the wife. I agree with most everything Dr. Laura says in the book, especially the part of how men are very simple, and how women are very complex. She also says that men have very few tools for making their relationships better, and I agree. I feel like I have virtually nothing that I can change that will make a significant change in my marriage.
I don't agree with the complex/simple gender assignment.
Cemar, I can understand what you're feeling. Our earlier sexual relationship was often, fairly varied and I was a willing and active partner. However, I was guarded and carried around some inhibitions, so even back then I was still very much the response partner more than the initiating partner. Our sex life (for me) was a part or extension of the relationship we shared. As that relationship got damaged it produced its more heinous fruit in our sex life. I had the "relationship" talks and arguments over the first several years, and it didn't seem to get through. After several spectacular blowouts, I asked myself if this was something I was willing to destroy my marriage over. My answer was no. So, I stopped trying to instigate any changes. And I built my walls high and thick inside, less any of my hurt and resentment should dissipate.
Perhaps I should have continued the fight and things would have gotten better between us years ago. Or things might have escalated so far that I would have destroyed us. The reality is that I don't know. You know the fear isn't just that the other partner will decide to go for the big D, but the fear is also that the relationship will continue on but in an even more damaged and disfunctional way.
I had posted earlier about how the inability to handle discussing and solving sexual frequency compatiblity problems is an indication that the couple also has a problem solving other difficult problems. It may be that no other biggies have cropped up in your relationship, or they may be obscured by the sex issues. But I'm pretty confident that there is a lack of mature function that contributes to the ongoing sex problem that can, will and does show up in other areas.
NOP and I are still ML every night, but you know what? Our other relational issues didn't just disappear in the warm sexual atmosphere. We get to continue addressing those. And we don't always handle it in a mature, calm fashion. While sex may be greasing the skids where the friction is hottest, it isn't a magic wand that snaps those issues into the "solved" column.
So, I want to gently counter your belief that if your wife was chasing you around the house nude with naughty intentions toward your nether regions, you would find it a snap to be/do what she might want you to be/do.
I would also encourage you to express your unhappiness to your wife in a loving, gentle fashion. The problem doesn't get any easier to solve over time. Somewhere between you sucking it up and never addressing your needs and divorce, there's a lot of middle-ground area that you can work in.
