Quote: All in all, I felt fine, and after he kissed me goodbye on the cheeks, I realised that I didn't want to ever kiss him again without him wanting it, and I was prepared to accept his not wanting it until he did, if ever, want it. I felt great!
That's a good place to be in
Quote: I think this whole "I'll do whatever I darn well want" attitude is sort of a reaction to being in the marriage where I would tell him he needed to set some kind of example to D in his behaviour, but he never bought into that idea.
yeah, that's a trap a lot of us fall into, "mothering" our H's, can't blame them for not liking it. And yes, they rebel, and use the kids in their rebelling. Just let go of the food issues, etc.
Quote: Then he said, OW 2 was back for a couple of days, trying to get her rent deposit back, but her landlady was a b***h and refused to return most of it on spurious grounds, saying that the house had not been left in clean and good condition, but H said OW spent five days cleaning it. He admitted that OW 2 wasn't the cleanest and tidiest person, but when she cleaned, then she did a good job. The landlady's objections were all spurious... Did I need to know all about this???
I agree, seems pretty weird that she would spend the money on an airline ticket to recoup the deposit - sounds more like an excuse to see H, and he seems to have fallen for her damsel in distress routine! Didn't know OW2 had a H - does he know about the affair?
As for H's anger at her landlord, and at various other people - anger is often a manifestation of depression in men. When my H was at his worst, he changed from a normally pretty mellow guy to Mr. Road Rage. Your detachment helps a lot for you to deal with this.
All in all, I think you did very well. Just keep living your life. You're right, you really don't want him back unless he's able to grow quite a bit from where he is now. Just keep moving forward and see if he catches up.
Quote: Didn't know OW2 had a H - does he know about the affair?
Both OW are married, and both left their husbands. OW 1 in the same week that H decided to walk, and in the case of OW 2 there was some long saga about how awful her H was and how he cleaned her out of money - so how come he is paying her now???
He must know about the A as she has been living on and off in this country for the last eight months!
Or maybe he just thought she had slid down the back of the sofa, like in that Gary Larson cartoon???
Quote: As for H's anger at her landlord, and at various other people - anger is often a manifestation of depression in men. When my H was at his worst, he changed from a normally pretty mellow guy to Mr. Road Rage. Your detachment helps a lot for you to deal with this.
Ellie, you have posted about this to me numerous times, and I think I have only just recently 'got it'!! So, I don't take it personally now.
Did I mention that H says he has been waking up at 3 or 4 a.m. every morning for the past few months? He talks about the boredom of his life. Isn't consistently waking up at night/early morning a sign of depression too?
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
I am going to be very busy all next week, and I have a full weekend ahead, starting the moment that D comes out of school early this afternoon. I wonder if I am doing too much, but then I think that being busy with work and being social with people is what will help me keep my eye on the GAL ball and off of H and his doings.
So I wish everyone here a great weekend with whatever you plan to do!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Saw your post to me on berto's thread. Thanks for checkin' in. Things are fine with me. I'm just livin' life. Still not D'd but I can only attribute that to my laziness. I still talk to H a few times a week, dog stuff mostly. There are no feelings of love left, on my end anyway. He still occasionally tells me he misses me and loves me etc...Just doesn't do anything for me anymore.
Life goes on, it always does. Glad to see you are doing relativly well. Keep living for yourself and your D and you'll be fine.
Well, it has happened, we are back to the usual cycle.
This is just a short resume of the weekend.
I got D out from school early and we went off and stayed with friends in the mountains. Nice day on Saturday, then in the evening I got D to call her Dad from my cell phone. I didn't want to us our hosts' phone uneccessarily (because of the expense) and we had to go outside to make the call as the signal was bad inside due to the very thick walls of the old house. During the call, the reception was patchy, and D handed me the phone. H said the signal was bad, I told him where we were and why it was bad, D had gone near the wall when I told her to stay away from it etc, all in a normal friendly voice - I was just explaining the situation - when H get really mad and started being very abusive, saying I wouldn't even spend the smallest f***ing amount on making a phone call to him blah blah blah. Very aggressive and insulting. I was very taken aback and shaking, so I just said, I don't wish to be spoken to like that, I'm sorry, and ended the call. I didn't call back because I didn't want to get into more stuff like that and because I just felt that I shouldn't respond to a stream of abuse.
Of course that preyed on my mind the whole of Sunday, although we had a nice day otherwise. I resented my weekend being contaminated by the abuse.
Sunday evening after we got back home I got D to call H and they spoke.
I checked my email this morning and there were two emails from H, the first one full of abuse, and the second one is long and all about how hard done by he is. The only responsibilty for the ending of our M that he takes, is that in fact he wasn't harder on me! He didn't force me to face reality earlier etc etc.
I will have to come back later, I have a busy day ahead (you know, lying down and twiddling my thumbs). But I feel shaken yet again. All the stuff he talks about is stuff we should really have talked about calmly YEARS ago instead of now in a state of WAR. He is basically putting financial pressure to bear on me yet again. That's not a surprise.
Looks like I'll need some support to get through this coming month. I wonder what things will be like this Christmas??
I was thinking of just sending H an email saying, thanks for your emails, I will reply to you when I am able.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
LNL - recognize where this is coming from. You are out having a nice weekend with friends (friends who maybe don't want to see H anymore?) while he is home facing the loneliness and shambles that is his life. He's jealous and guilty and depressed and it comes out as anger.
I think your idea of telling him you will answer later is fine. Then craft your answer carefully, and post it here first for editing.
In your answer, don't feel like you have to answer all his issues point for point. Validate where you can ("I'm so sorry you felt like ......It was certainly never my intention, I loved you with all my heart, I guess I just expressed it in the wrong ways" "I know you are worried about money. Here are the things that I am doing to try to increase my income :......... Don't worry, we will get through this" "How did your visit with the doctor go?") Ignore the stuff that is just crazy. Validate, don't defend.
Look, the fact that he has this much anger and emotion is still a good thing. He's still engaged with you and obviously bothered by your weekend away. Hang in there, don't let him push your buttons, be kind and empathetic.
Oh....and think about ways to touch base with him during the week - interesting articles by email, funny stuff - things unrelated to logistics and R talk. You KNOW he doesn't do well alone - so find a way to give him some of that quality time he craves without looking like you are pursuing. Tough act, but you can do it.
LNL- Just doing some mid-morning lurking before posting to my own place and checked in your sitch. I just had to let you know I could not agree with KML more!!!
He is having feelings that appear to cause him to "react", or "respond" to you in ways that seem out of proportion to the actual situation. IE: A bad phone connnection is not your "fault". It is not a personal attack upon him, and for him to react to it as though it is, is not in porportion to what really happened. I hope at least YOU realize this even if he does not.
His inability to express his frustrations at not being able to hear,( be a part of the day) are HIS problem and you have nothing to apologize for. In fact you were trying to encourage his involvement with your D by having her call! That said, of course you are looking for ways to keep communication lines open so you are trying diffuse the situation by sending him a conciliatory email.
I am going to jump into "shark infested waters' here and suggest you do no such thing. Unless and until he is made aware of his passive aggressive reactions you can expect more of the same, and that is what he is doing when being abusive towards you over something so small.
Now it is not your job to be his therapist, However if you still want to find a way to communicate with him without making yourself an insipid, wimpering, pathetic, victim(in his eyes).... You can do as KML suggested and send him an email but....CAUTION word it carefully: I would not go out of my way to reassure him with statements such as, "I love you with all my heart". He already knows this, he is taking advantage of you because of this!
"I guess I just expressed it in the wrong way...", YOU expressed nothing inappropriately and for you to take responsibility when none is yours, make you look a bit weak and pathetic in his eyes!! Make no mistake he will take no solice in your taking "responsibility" in fact.... he will see you weaker than ever and feel justified in his treatment of you!!
" I know you are worried about the money....."
YOU DO??? Do not PRESUME TO KNOW WHAT HE FEELS IT IS INSULTING TO HIM!! It does not endear you to him. How do you know what he is feeling?? And why do you ASSUME to know...why not ask him??????
Now I know that is tough because he is likely to let you have a real blast of non-related anger, but let him go....let him say whatever and then Validate like KML says.....
Remember, You don't have to agree with him!!!!!!! You just need to "HEAR" him. Again KML has a great suggestion, validate, don't defend.
Taking blame for what you feel is yours is a bit of a double edged sword right now...because you may be finding it hard not to feel like it is all YOUR FAULT!! But it isn't It's just hard to wade through all the passive/aggressive behavior and get back on solid ground, both emotionally and intellectually.
He tends to throw off your equilibrium!
And what's more.... I'd hazard to say, he is at least "sub"concious of this fact and uses it to control the situation, conversation, or outcome! Or very much aware he can get out of being rational because he can put it on you to figure this all out.
Kml is right about something else, if you avoid letting him SEE that he pushes your buttons it could prove empowering to you. Now be aware ....At first when he can't get an rise or an immediate apology from you his behavior will most likely INCREASE!! He is looking for the limit...the boundary...
You must be ready to show it to him.(Outright telling him is pointless, telling him what you mean or intend to do just "tips your hand" you must literally "respond" with body language, with failure to show emotion, failure to "REACT"..... This is the language he understands......your guterall reactions.......... The language he is so use to wielding, bending, MANIPULATING........YOU are the putty, the clay he is molding and playing with......
Again KML's suggestions about touching base with him during the week are great. Let him see he does not control or intrude on your regular weeks activities, that you are able to overcome and keep functioning with little uncertainty.
Show him by your actions that he will have to find another way to engage you.
I still talk to H a few times a week, dog stuff mostly. There are no feelings of love left, on my end anyway. He still occasionally tells me he misses me and loves me etc...Just doesn't do anything for me anymore.
