Hello, all. I’m new to Piecing, although some of you know me. I’ve been in Newcomers since June, when the bomb dropped. Since, S. and I have made a go of it again, and we are working very hard.
Here are the vitals:
Me: 36 SO = S.: 40 split up: 4 June I went totally dark (LRT to the extreme) for 2 months S. starts making noises about coming back: 24 July whirlwind courtship ensues back together: 21 August
Here’s my first thread, when I was but a green newbie: Is it REALLY over?
Okay Jen, I'm jumping in first, and going to post your last comment from your old thread here for consistency:
OK, I have three secs right now, but THANK YOU, everyone, and I need to clarify one little thing:
When S. and I talk and the other is silent, and we are wondering what the response is, and a response isn't forthcoming, we say "What are you thinking?" to prompt the other person to speak. He does it to me ALL the time, and I do it to him, and it is a standard thing (ONE way we are alike in our communications)!
So really it means, "You haven't responded to what I've said, and I'm curious as to your thoughts, and you are welcome to now take the floor and speak." I assure you, it is nonthreatening, and I took my cue from him, who started it long ago. It seems to work.
Thanks again, friends.
Betsey, I talked to Merrick, too! After the game. He said he'd spoken to you. It was really noisy and we couldn't really hear each other so I just said "sorry" (about the Yanks) and gloated a little (I was pulling for the Sox)...
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
If you were in sales and you were my employee, I'd have to call you on this:
Quote: When S. and I talk and the other is silent, and we are wondering what the response is, and a response isn't forthcoming, we say "What are you thinking?" to prompt the other person to speak. He does it to me ALL the time, and I do it to him, and it is a standard thing (ONE way we are alike in our communications)!
Stop doing this! In the sales world, you blow the sale!
If he wants you to know what he's thinking, he WILL tell you. It doesn't work in sales, and it didn't work with you last night either! We have a philosphy in the sales world that applies very well in personal interactions:
He who speaks next, owns it!
You've told him what he needs to know... that is, you told him what you were thinking and why you were thinking that. Now, if you want honest feedback, you'd let him think about this and come back to you when he's ready to offer his comments. You don't want to blow the sale, right?
Silence is a gift, Jennifer. It is a means for the other person to ponder and formulate questions. Questions are what he's going to ask to close you.
"Why do you feel that way?"
"I didn't realize I was withholding ILY from you. What can I do to show you that I do?"
Anything.... anything for him to consider your perspective and position.
Does this make sense?
Be a saleswoman, Jen. You want him to buy what you have to offer, right?
Bets
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Hmmmm, nice over here in Piecing... hope I get to follow you over here soon...
Gee, I'm in Sales too (but you already knew that...). I'd have to say from a sales perspective I agree w/ Betsey.
But, I do understand that you're saying this "what are you thinking?" is a common, short-hand for you guys to invite the other to speak. And I'll trust that it works well and often for you. [Question: can you verify that it works when you say it as well as when he says it? or is it HIS thing and he misses it when you use it?]. Apart from the question, I'll follow you on that this convention works for you guys.
I think the key is, knowing when NOT to use it. IOW, knowing when NOT to prompt for a reply. Knowing when YOUR message to him needs some pondering, and so any gut response would not be as great of value as a thoughtful one later.
Anyways, we did kinda talk about this stuff on tuesday night, didn't we? That your reconciliation was such a HIGH, so romantic, etc. and that now you've returned to the regularly scheduled program - meaning a more watered down version of that romantic high.
If I recall correctly, those early days were filled with lots of VERBAL affirmations of love, reconciliation, etc. And I think this may be where you are getting that 'not as loved feeling' - that S. is not as verbal in his affirmations of love, than he was being then.
Which, ever so conveniently allows me to point you back to your discussion w/ S. on the 5LL's and HIS idea of charting how you each were doing on those. Nudge, nudge, where's your spreadsheet? Could it be that you are not only missing the verbal ILY, but as a result you're missing the physical ILYs, AOS ILYs, the WOA ILYs, etc...?
And I'll stop after this, I promise! - How are you doing in speaking S.'s LL's? How creative can you be with those WOA & AOS and GIFTS (the one you like!)? If your tank is half empty, I suggest trying to top off his...
And hey where's that wonderful, sophisticated, funky, who-used-to-live-in-Paris girl that he was so drawn to . . . ? As I said to Maya, intentions (to be pursued, treasured & ravished) are great - tell me what kind of woman is pursued, cherished, etc.? Who were you when S. was wooing & pursuing you back out of your Oscar-winning Darkness role?
Think of "the sale" as S buying the solution to Jen's dilemma. That is, she's wanting him to "own" something that is important to her.
If he speaks first, he's going to ask a question (getting closer to doing that) or he's going to give her a YES (BINGO!) or a NO (which merely means "I need more information before I give you a yes").
Let me transfer that to human speak, and I'll use myself as an example.
I want my boss to give me a raise. He had no idea that this is something that is important to me until I spoke up. Money is something that typically makes him feel a little defensive, and if my timing isn't dead on, chances are, I'm going to put him on the defensive and imply that he doesn't appreciate my talents around here.
I know that flies are more attracted to honey than vinegar, so I decide to use a soft approach to let him know. "D, I've been a little moody at work. Do you want to know why?"
I see him gulp. He's clearly uncomfortable and knows there is no way he's going to exit his office without me telling him why I'm moody, so he agrees to let me continue.
"The fact is, I work hard and put my best effort forth here. The clients are very pleased and business is improved because of my commitment. I'm hurt because you haven't offered me a raise."
Silence.
Wow, does that mean he doesn't think I'm valuable around here? What a prick! I can't believe he's not all over this and gushing about my contributions around here!
"What are you thinking?"
Interpretation by him? If you'd let me think, I'd tell you! I'm just blown away by the fact that you asked me for a raise and told me you were hurt, when I had no idea you felt this way.... God, I wish I could walk away before answering. There is no way I'm going to win this battle right now, so I'll just get her out of my face until I have time to think about what she said.
"I'm sorry you feel that way."
Note: He is not responding to the assumption that he doesn't value me. He's responding to the statement that I made about being hurt because he didn't offer me a raise before I had to approach him on this.
What incentive does he have with that sort of statement to give me what I want? Instead of just telling him I want (the raise), I put an emotional variable into the equation that completely took the focus off the real issue (the raise) and addressed my hurt instead.
This is why "he who speaks next owns it".
It means that person is "buying" the solution... tangible or intangible.
Sorry for the confusion...
Betsey
p.s. I forgot to redo the convo in the way I could have done it to get him to give me what I want. Here goes:
"D, I don't know if this is a good time to chat about an issue I'd like to bring up with you. It's important to me, so I'd like to do this when you are amenable."
I will get a nod to proceed or a time to do it. Good. I get him when he's receptive to my important issue. I don't have to bring up my emotions.
"D, business has really picked up since I took over XYZ account, and the clients are really giving me some great feedback. I've been able to increase profits here by my diligence here at work. I would like to discuss the possibility of a raise with you. I feel I am going to be able to continue to do a good job for you...."
I know I've approached this head on: I want that raise. So I keep silent. I allow the silence to continue because I know it's my friend. He's thinking.
"Betsey, you're absolutely right. I was trying to think of the last time I gave you a raise. Man, it WAS a long time ago, wasn't it? Next time, would you tell me sooner so I can do it more timely?"
Ask for what you want, Jen. Don't make him guess or feel bad about not giving it to you in the manner you are asking for it.
Last edited by Underdog; 10/21/0405:16 PM.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
J - look back at the 10/7 posts on my thread - I really think your BF is probably reacting the way my H does. After all - he realizes you're hurt, he's overwhelmed with guilt that not only did he say those terrible things to you about the flowers, and have the affair, but now he's messed up even more by not thinking about giving you the flowers (or maybe he thought about it when he bought them, then chickened out on giving them to you because they were so fraught with layers of history? Is he the kind of guy who would normally buy flowers for himself?).
Either way, when it comes up, he's frozen with guilt and fear that you will abandon him - so he clams up.
You might try addressing the question in an email - if that works better for you - simply stating why it bothered you and what you would like him to do.
"Dear BF - The reason I got upset aboput the flowers the other day was because I remember you telling me you wanted to be in a R where you felt like buying flowers. I took that two steps down the road and ASSumed it meant you still don't feel like buying ME flowers. I know that doesn't match up with the rest of your behaviors and words towards me, and that I'm reading a lot into this sitch that probably isn't there. What would really make me feel better would be if you would start buying me flowers (say, maybe once a week for a few weeks? ).
I know it may seem silly or forced but it would really mean a lot to me.
Hi, folks, thanks SO much for all the valuable input. I feel very lucky to have such generous feedback on my thread today (and my new one, to boot! ). I’ve calmed down quite a bit over the course of the day, and have had some time to absorb all of your comments. Here are some responses:
SAGE: You are so right – he couldn’t respond, and I would venture to guess it’s all of the things you suggested: b/c it would have seemed false; b/c it would be bowing to pressure, especially. I have read M/V, but it’s been awhile. Thanks for the reminder.
StubbornD, As usual, you hit it square on the nose. I appreciate so much your straightforwardness. Your whack deserves repeating here, and I must admit a big guffaw escaped after I read it (thanks):
Quote: How would you feel if you got a little something to brighten your place and you had to explain and defend and justify yourself and spend a bunch of energy comforting him over his feelings about what is really none of his beeswax.
H2H, Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes! I am so much clearer now that after he took me out last night, and was sweet and snuggled up to me, and was sweet this morning and stroked my hair like I’ve asked him to (though he needs a little practice ) … so after all that, he was making me unhappy somehow, and I just had to screw up my face and tell him. And over some FLOWERS he bought himself! My goodness. What a dolt. Yes, sending a search party out for Mlle. Fabuleuse again, we seem to have lost her temporarily. Merde.
Betsey, thank you for all the great analogy. It’s very clear, yes. And here’s the truth, though I’ve been SO much better about it since we got back together: Feeling as though I didn't acknowledge the terrific ways he WAS showing me he loved me and cared for me. I have learned to validate, and I had appreciated his taking me out last night (he even acknowledged my acknowledging it!). So I need to just be better at it. And you’re right, my approach would NEVER get me a raise! (I’m about to ask for one, too, so this is very timely. )
So from my last thread, just yesterday, when I was not a crazymaking fool, I posted some goals for the weekend. Here they are again, in hopes I can focus on them and not my selfish it’s-all-about-me id.
Quote: Short-term goals: 1. Have another finances talk w/ S. 2. Decide by this w-e where we are going on our trip in Feb. and book our tickets. 3. Start our LL work we discussed (see earlier posts). 4. Be free and easy, and do some "hanging out" at S's. 5. Try to figure a way to have him come over to my place to hang out while *I* do things. 6. Have fun at dinner at my house on Sunday night with live-in couple, friends of couple, and S. and I.
I'm wondering if I should bring it up again - I don't know. Maybe I should let it drop. But yes, I imagine we will talk about this again, and your suggestion to simply say that I took it as all about ME and ASSumed that it meant something other than, HEY! I'd like some flowers for my mantelpiece.
NO, he has never bought flowers for himself as long as I've known him. It was weird, I admit. I have no idea where that came from. Whatever - no use in driving myself crazy over that one.
BTW, SD, I actually missed my yoga class this morning because of a misunderstanding between my cousin and me about his car. So... I probably would have been in a much more yogini-like state had I not missed it, and this never would have happened!
I went through the day wondering what I should do to clean up the mini-mess. I decided to do nothing, and Act As If. So, AAI for me on weekdays involves one of us (usually S.) calling to check in around 6 or so to see what we are doing later. No call. 6 - 7 - 8...
I waited, thinking he was taking cave time (because it got to be 9:30 and he works until 8:30 usually), and I decided that I wasn't going to do "silent treatment" when it is normal to check in, so I called around 9:40 to say, cheerfully, to his VM - because he didn't pick up his cel. - "Hey, it's me, It's almost 10 and I was wondering where you were - I'm home, just checking in - call me when you can, OK bye."
And so at 10:10 he called, I answered VERY cheerfully, and he said he had just had dinner with [MF], I was upbeat and said, "Great!" instead of, "Why didn't you call me to let me know like we always do, ya yahoo," and his voice went up two cheerfulness factors, and he asked if I felt like watching a movie, and I said, instead of a noncommittal-ish "Sure," like I normally would, I decided to try a subtle 180 and I said, "Yes, I do, actually... that would be great!" And he said, again another cheerful decibel up the scale, "OK! Good! I'll call you when I get home," and I said OK, and he said, again breaking all cheerful records, "Great! OK! Talk to you later! Bye!"
So, big relief for him that I didn't rake him over the coals for not checking in, and it looks like the baby 180 (maybe a 110?) worked. I'm usually more blasé about watching movies, and so I thought I'd try a definitive YES instead of a Sure.
OK, not trying to make mountains out of molehills here, just logging the baby steps.
S. called just now, he's on his way to my house. I asked him to bring the ice cream I left in his freezer, and he said in a playful voice, "Nnnyeah, I was going to surprise you...!" and so, it looks like all is forgiven.
I think when we're snuggled into bed later I will say, "S., I just wanted you to know I'm sorry I reacted badly to the flowers, and I had a great time with you last night, and I really loved it that you took me out, and I don't want to take away from that." And I'll save asking for words of affection for when we've sat down to our LL charts.
Bets 
). I’ve calmed down quite a bit over the course of the day, and have had some time to absorb all of your comments. Here are some responses:
) … so after all that, he was making me unhappy somehow, and I just had to screw up my face and tell him. And over some FLOWERS he bought himself! My goodness. What a dolt. 
Yes, sending a search party out for Mlle. Fabuleuse again, we seem to have lost her temporarily. Merde.
)