I've only been reading this board for five days, but I think I've found my people! I'm amazed at the intelligence, compassion, wit, and understanding I'm seeing in your posts. This might be just about the smartest board I've ever seen!
I have (and have read) the first two of Schnarch's books-- read them years ago hoping to inject some vitality in to my marriage with my late husband. I've also read the Languages of Love and found it extremely helpful in decoding some of the misunderstandings between me and my bf of two years. He's an acts of service guy, whereas I love presents! Just bought Schnarch's latest book, Resurrecting Sex. Yes, I find myself in a new relationship with some of the same themes as my marriage.
When my bf and I first got together two years ago, he was drinking heavily. I had come out of a marriage where I had been a caregiver for 10 years. Then I was on my own, grieving and lost for two years. I longed for a relationship where health wasn't the main focus and where there would be regular sex.
Instead, I fell in love with an alcoholic. Darn, I hate it when that happens. Even from the beginning, I had to drag him to the bedroom. Why did I stick around? Different reasons... optimism, stupidity, plus everything else in the relationship wasn't just good, it was perfect. He was everything I had been looking for in terms of interests, personality compatibility, values, love of animals, lifestyle preferences, music, cooking-- absolutely everything.
The sexual zone was troubled. It was just never smooth. I ALWAYS had to initiate. It was always me doing oral on him while one of us stimulating me manually. Needless to say, there were erectile difficulties. He NEVER would do oral on me (aversion to Female Parts-- smells, tastes, etc. Gee, with other guys, you have to DRAG them out of there! LOL!). Finally I got to the point where I said, If we could just do it once a week, I would feel normal. On a couple of occasions, we REALLY connected, and I always had hope it might happen again. Once we had a spectacular encounter-- he was SOOO open, loving, tender, verbal-- God, it was a dream come true. The next day I referred to it and he didn't remember one thing. It was a total, alcohol-induced blackout. I felt like I had been slugged.
Fast forward to five months ago. He had quadruple bypass surgery. It was a real come-to-Jesus experience for him (and for me, too-- to be sitting once again at the bedside of the man I loved, wondering if he was going to survive-- VERY scary and stressful, especially given my history).
The day before the heart diagnosis, he was laid off from his job-- it was completely unexpected. His company closed all of their stores-- 2,500 people were laid off that day.
Anyway, he has stopped drinking. Thank God. So now he's facing all of these crises without anesthesia.
And he's having the same ED for physical/emotional reasons, AND is discovering that this is the first time in his life that he's trying to be intimate SOBER. We are in counseling, and the counselor is okay. The C is not familiar with Schnarch. I asked him yesterday.
My bf is willing, but scared. To his credit, he recognizes this. He says he would like our sex life to be better. (Personally, I would like to HAVE a sex life.)
Before the surgery when he was drinking, he would be all kissy-face and suggestive, grabbing me, playing with me, etc., but it NEVER led to ML unless I made it happen. There were the times he fell asleep while touching me, passed out on the couch, even rejected me outright a few times.
Since the surgery five months ago we've ML four times. Interestingly, two of those times were within two weeks of the surgery and he initiated both times. I was overjoyed. Here he had stopped drinking and he was initiating sex-- YAY!! But after that, he didn't initiate any more. So since those two times, we've done it twice-- both times me doing oral on him, and I didn't come. I playfully told him he owes me an O, and he playfully agreed. Frankly lately it worries me that I'M losing interest...
Last week I was ready to bail, but on Friday I started reading this board, and it was such a relief to see that others are grappling with these issues, too. And y'all are so damn SMART!!!
So I bought SSM and read it. I'm reading Schnarch. I told my bf yesterday at the therapist's that I was going to back way off and give him some compassion and some room and have patience. He has a LOT on his plate... and whereas I think sex could be a comfort and a haven, to him it is *~PERFORMANCE~* with a capital "P"-- actually the P is NOT a capital P-- anyway...
I don't know whether this will ever improve. In my mind, I've given it a year. If we're still on this square a year from now with NO forward movement, I'll probably leave. We're not married. We still have both our houses, even though we live together. We go back and forth between his house in the city and mine in the country-- a fabulous arrangement. I can't get married again for financial reasons, so fortunately, that's off the table.
When I was younger and in an unhappy relationship, I used to assume that a new partner was what I needed. Now at age 55 (he's 54), I understand that the common denominator is ME. So I'm not so quick to bail-- maybe that attitude made me stay in this longer than I should have. But we are soooo compatible walking around with our clothes on!! I feel that if we can connect in bed, it will be great. If he can stop being afraid of me and women and sex. (If you met his mom, you would know why he's afraid of women!) I do feel that we are perfectly matched-- at least for Growth! I hope we're also matched for Living.
Mojo's story was particularly inspiring. In fact, all of your stories are inspiring.
Anyone have any advice on the subject of sex after sobriety-- facing the world and your naked spouse without your anesthesia?
I look forward to learning more as I move around this board.
Glad you found this message board, although I am not glad for the circumstances you are here. There are alot of wise people here with good advice.
I, too, married an alcoholic, only I didn't know the extent of his problem till after we were married. My H had bad erection problems due to his drinking and we have had the SSM problem for most of the marriage, it will be 23 years this november. H has not drank in 10 years now and he too suffered heart attacks and heart bypass surgery. My H became very boring after he stopped drinking lol. He was always a home person, and it got worse then.
I have not actually talked to H about what I feel or want, so I really can't give you any advice as to what to do. I have not read any Schnarch either. I know that with my H after the heart problems he became very depressed, which he refused to acknowledge. Its been about 6 yrs now since his surgery and just this past January he decided he wanted to make things better between us. (up till then, sex was nonexistant for about 10 yrs)
It sounds like your bf is willing to address these things. I wish you all the luck.
Thanks for the reply, annette, and for the welcome. I was starting to be afraid that I had stumped the panel.
My bf has recovered from the heart attack physically. He has a lot of stamina and his favorite thing to do is to work in the garden all day-- I mean hard physical labor. He is very active and upbeat and this makes him fun to be around, but he tends to deflect serious stuff. When we talk about the R (correction: when I want to talk about it), he accuses me of "slicing and dicing" it. He wants things to just evolve naturally... of course, he pours fertilizer on the garden by the ton and waters and prunes, etc. It's okay to help nature in the garden but not in our relationship??
Yesterday at the C, he was very frank about how different it is to face the world without booze. I got teary-eyed watching him talk and realizing all the stuff he is coping with right now... not just heart stuff, but no job, no alcohol, troublesome ex-wife (they have twin teenage girls), $$$ troubles, scary-clingy mom... his mom is 86 and owns a bar. At dinner (at a restaurant) on Sunday, she offered him a glass of wine. He's been dry for five months and she offers him a glass of wine. (He turned her down.)
I can certainly be supportive, and I've proved that I am a stalwart caregiver. I just want to know when it is going to be MY TURN?? I get teary-eyed about myself, when I ask the question: When is it going to be someone's priority to be supportive of ME???? I brought this up with the C yesterday, and he and bf seemed to understand. I want to get the Schnarch stuff out and read the part about fusion. Very similar to what you encounter in alanon regarding detachment, etc. I'm coming right up against all my major issues.
I can understand your being anxious about it all, believe me I really do. I think patience is the key with these situations though. What does the C and BF say when you ask about it being your turn? I do know that it wasn't until I didn't really care and started doing things on my own, that he really cared about it all.
I'm surprised some others have not chimmed in here about the PM concept. Keep reading, learning and trying.
I am dieing inside for different reasons, but I still read and had to reply to something in your post.
Quote: scary-clingy mom... his mom is 86 and owns a bar. At dinner (at a restaurant) on Sunday, she offered him a glass of wine. He's been dry for five months and she offers him a glass of wine. (He turned her down.)
This is not related to your SSM really, but I know from my side of the fence I see a lot of things that are not important to the situation that seem to be huge issues. His mom is 86 and owns a bar, I don't think she was trying to get him to drink, but rather acting on instinct. He said no and that was very good. You will not be able to stop him from drinking if her wants to drink and someone offering him a drink will not make him drink if her wants to stay sober.
--------------------------------------------------------- DazedandConfuzed - remembering the Packers won last night...all should be well with the world.
However, one of the ways of reinforcing your own sobriety is to refrain from being around the past associates with whom you used to drink.
I only brought that up, with all the other stuff in the list, to illustrate the various pressures and dynamics at work in his life at the moment. One of his reasons for not wanting sex is because of all the pressures on him. The therapist and I are the only two people in his life who are supporting him in his new attempts to be healthy.
And I want sex, so that makes me a source of stress, too, and not entirely safe.
At least the therapist doesn't want sex, so bf is free from pressure there (except financial-- no insurance coverage for this, so writing that check hurts!). (We take turns paying.)
annette, BF and C both agree that it should be my turn, but talk is cheap. I do lots of stuff on my own and have friends, activities, etc. that do not include BF. We do absolutely great on a day to day basis. We're like a house where everything on the ground floor is absolutely perfect, but you go upstairs to the bedroom, and someone left the window open...there's snow on the bedspread, cobwebs up in the corners... he sees it as a dark and scary place. He told the C yesterday that he has been experiencing erectile problems for the past 15 years or so. I gather his ex also complained about infrequency. According to BF the way the ex complained was by going back to the bedroom and shouting to him: Get back here and fcuk me!" He didn't like that approach.
I must start focusing on myself more, but I'm getting really tired of solo sex (not that it isn't Good-- it is )
I don't think he even masturbates. He's very fastidious and a borders on prudishness sometimes. He doesn't turn his head away during romantic or erotic scenes on tv. If I look at him, he is usually smiling and seems to think it's very sweet. He says he wants that kind of R for us... but as I said in the beginning: talk is cheap.
Welcome Lillieperl, The high cost of your C is most certainly a good thing. He is paying good money for it so he will be looking to get good value from it. Good luck. SD
I just located a Schnarch-oriented therapist in our area, and I'm going to suggest we change. I'm pretty savvy in the C department and the current one is not impressing me (we've been about six times). Geez, one time when I went by myself, I was talking about some of the things that were unsatisfying about the R, and the C said, "Well, if so many things bother you, why don't you just leave him?" I get better feedback than that from my girlfriends for free, and sometimes they even buy my lunch!
Another time when we were there together, I said I felt that my BF did not find me attractive because he never approached me for ML. I said, "I know I'm not pretty." The C said, "What does that MEAN, really, to 'be pretty'?" Yikes! A better response would have been the ever-popular and hardly-ever-inappropriate "And when you tell yourself you're not pretty, how do you feel?"
It helps to feel that the surgeon is competent, at least WHILE he's working on you. You hate to look up into that big mirror over the table and watch him cut out the wrong organ-- especially when you've just handed him a big, fat check!
You are lucky to have found a Schnarch oriented C. Certainly his book has made all the difference to me. It'd be great to go on one of his couple's retreat vacations. SD
Just bought Schnarch's latest book, Resurrecting Sex. Yes, I find myself in a new relationship with some of the same themes as my marriage. 
Even from the beginning, I had to drag him to the bedroom. Why did I stick around? Different reasons... optimism, stupidity, plus everything else in the relationship wasn't just good, it was perfect. He was everything I had been looking for in terms of interests, personality compatibility, values, love of animals, lifestyle preferences, music, cooking-- absolutely everything. 
(He turned her down.)
I get better feedback than that from my girlfriends for free, and sometimes they even buy my lunch!