I mentioned somewhere earlier today that I had just read through the self-confrontation section of Schnarch earlier today and had a revelation. I sort of touched on this just now in chocolateyes' thread, but I thought I would expand here.
I realized that I've been 'playing' the victim. Probably if you met me, you wouldn't think that - I come across as strong and self-confident, especially in the culture I presently live in, where the average person is very subdued, and blowing your own horn is very much discouraged.
Anyway...I saw that I've often set myself up as a victim on some level in a way to 'save face' - give me an out if I failed. I was self confident to a point - but I was afraid to go all the way - afraid that someone would find out I was faking it.
I have an awful time asking for help, or admitting weakness. So how does someone like that let their H control them? Easy: H complains the house is a mess, I can't let him think I can't do it, so I add that to my list of chores. I don't want to get H upset, so I do what I can to keep him happy, without caring that it's making me resentful. Real P/A stuff.
Like I said in choco's thread, my cries for help were most likely taken as whines of a 'martyr'. For good reason. I was miserable, so I wanted everyone else to be as well. I resented H, wanted him to feel bad, to understand how I felt.
Tonight I confronted H about the finances - the fact that I have no idea of what's going on. A week ago, I couldn't have even considered bringing that topic up, now I was able to see it as so seperate from my identity that it didn't bother me at all (blatent pat on back here!! )
At first I though H understood when I explained that since I had no idea of our finances, it took away all value of money to me, and I was afraid that I was learning a very childish attitude toward spending.
H laughed when I told him I felt like an employee, and I told him it was no laughing matter. H then offered to turn over the whole business of bookkeeping to me. I didn't let him get away with that, either, and it gave me a good chance to 'butter him up' since he is very very good at keeping track of our finances, and I really do appreciate it. I explained that I just wanted to be an equal partner, and to know what was going on, so that I had an idea of how much I could or couldn't spend.
H continued to say he couldn't understand what I meant. I'm sure I'm going to have to go back to this several times before he's comfortable with me being his equal.
And yes, I think this has everything to do with sex (doesn't everything ). Until H sees me as an equal here, how can he in bed???
For step 2, how about giving him some concrete idea of what he could do to keep you informed? Maybe you could suggest an initial financial meeting to show you where you're at with follow ups (however often you'd like). That would let him know what would make you feel like an equal in the finances.
That looks to me like a great pattern to start for sex talks later on.
Heap ---------------------------------------------------------- H continued to say he couldn't understand what I meant. -----------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like his canned answer to get you off track. Just like barneyfife said, "concrete questions" like 1. How much income did You/Me/WE have last year. 2. What do WE owe on the house, how much is paid on the house, what is OUR equity, how much does the house / apartment cost to operate per month ( payments, utilities, repairs) 3. Automobile expences. 4. Food, enterainment costs. 5. Savings, investments owned, future investments planned or possible investments, get H to name his favorite ONE.
Goal of my post to you. Do you see how his question to your question is just going in circles.
If H is a perfectionist, you might say you need "ball park" answers to the above. If this is a new area for the two of you, H answering only one of the above easier questions would be a start. Just another thought, you do some homework on your own and ask H something you already know the answer to. That way you know how cooperative he is being. Next time you ask H a question he might think he can not put you off by him asking you what you mean.
My W did not want to know the details of finances, just what we have left over so she can go shopping or saying "can we afford ????? a month for ?????". To me that was just as bad as your H not telling you what is going on financially. She is better now, but I can giver her too much information at times.
Too bad one of us on the BB just does not e-mail him and suggest that he should step up to the plate and lay some lovi'n on you, (hugg+kiss+???). Keck, I would even let him correct my spelling and English grammer if it would make him agree to make you happy for an hour. But, I do not want to interfear and mess things up for you and H.
OG Lou "Life is not fair all of the time, but I have a PMA (most of the time)."
Yeah, I know not having a concrete plan wasn't such a good idea...
Actually, I do know basically what we pay for housing per month, and I buy 90% of the food...asking H what he makes is like pulling teeth (as I mentioned earlier, a ridiculously high number of Finnish women have no idea what their S earns!!!!)
But all of this stuff is pretty clearly laid out, so it is partly my fault that I don't just check up (like I did this morning). It's almost more a symbolic thing that H controls all the money, knows exactly what I spend on everything, and keeps it to himself, so that I think I'm well within our budget, and he throughs out that we have no money for the next two weeks. Yet, he spends quite a bit on his hobbies...
He doesn't really cut me off, but I don't feel equal.
And yes, a good few hours of lovin would probably heal a lot. 'Just' huggin and kissin ain't enough at this point...
Hello up north, The first time I went to see a marriage counsellor, alone, the C thought that my W, who is Japanese, was frustrated because of a lack of power. I didn't agree with that; after all, she gives a lot of orders and certainly controls the sexual aspect of the M. But the idea stuck with me. W wanted to invest in real estate, and I didn't want to, because I figured I would have to do all the work. But then I thought, why am I stopping her? I'm just giving her another reason to complain about me. So I said, "Just do it. Buy a townhome." And she's doing it. I'm still doing some of the work, but she has most of the decision making power. And that's fine with me, because of something screws up, she can't come b!tching to me.
I believe that you said you were a musician. Do you earn any money from that? Does H control that money? Your H certainly should not have the right to spend exhorbitant amounts on his "habits."
Quote: I believe that you said you were a musician. Do you earn any money from that? Does H control that money? Your H certainly should not have the right to spend exhorbitant amounts on his "habits."
I do make a meager salary providing crucibles to teenagers who seem to think that playing the flute involves showing up for your lesson with a stack of music and an instrument (can you tell I had a bad day yesterday??)
It's not as bad as it sounds. H's 'habits' are mainly books and CDs, so I can't really complain, but I do feel the lack of power. Both in spending, and in my job - I have a long commute, and for me to stay closer to home right now would require lots of work on my part, and a drop in salary in the beginning. I do like my job, but it's not what I want to be doing for the next 20 yrs. I feel a little boxed in in that I do the majority of the house/kidwork, and commute, which leaves me no time/energy to do much else - though I don't even get the option of turning down sex(which I wouldn't do anyway). Yes, I'm having a pity party, wanna come??
H was a little friendlier last night, when we sat down to watch TV, he put his foot up against my leg (this from a guy who won't put his feet on furniture). I almost thing if I had been a little more aggressive, we might have gotten somewhere, but he backed off in the end...I was exhausted - not too tired for sex - but definately too tired to work hard to get it and then be turned down. Yeah, I guess I'm still chicken
Tonight I get home a little earlier, so let's see what happens...
Quote: But the idea stuck with me. W wanted to invest in real estate, and I didn't want to, because I figured I would have to do all the work. But then I thought, why am I stopping her? I'm just giving her another reason to complain about me.
Be careful. I think it can be counter-productive to do things in your relationship in order to get sex that have nothing to do with sex directly. However, if you feel like the only reason you weren't going along with the real estate idea was bitterness due to lack of sex, it was probably the right thing to do.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: I almost thing if I had been a little more aggressive, we might have gotten somewhere, but he backed off in the end...I was exhausted - not too tired for sex - but definately too tired to work hard to get it and then be turned down. Yeah, I guess I'm still chicken
This is good. You know what you need to do to be more differentiated. You don't have to force it or rush it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Hi, MM, Thanks for the advice. I abandoned the idea of trading real estate for sex, but W's working on the real estate project does seem to make her much less anxious and more pleasant to talk to.
You might ream me for this, but here goes. I sense a certain immaturity, even childishness in the way my W responds whenever I bring up the subject of sex. She literally whimpers . The real estate project she is embarking on is forcing her to think seriously and to deal with some pretty sharp people, so I think it is helping her to mature. Will this lead directly to more sex? I doubt it. But she will feel more confident in herself, and that is a good thing altogether. Maybe she will begin to face up to her responsibilities in addressing our relationship. And it helps me to trust her more and relinquish some of the control I have insisted on having.
)
). Until H sees me as an equal here, how can he in bed??? 
(can you tell I had a bad day yesterday??)
. The real estate project she is embarking on is forcing her to think seriously and to deal with some pretty sharp people, so I think it is helping her to mature. Will this lead directly to more sex? I doubt it. But she will feel more confident in herself, and that is a good thing altogether. Maybe she will begin to face up to her responsibilities in addressing our relationship. And it helps me to trust her more and relinquish some of the control I have insisted on having.