Corri: Why can't he say it...it is SO simple. If I said this to my W, she would say I was being "needy" since I "need" to be close to her. She would say that telling her "I miss you" is manipulative, in that it would make her feel guilty for being away from me.
I'm feeling especially isolated from her right now. The weekend was a "distant" one, despite the fact that we were together during most of it.
Hairdog - did someone say "pity party"? I LOVE parties!
When I read your original sentence, I thought you were saying that you needed intimacy and for him to bid for sex in the way that you need. This makes perfect sense to me, but I couldn't figure out why sex was in the equation. After all, we are talking about YOUR needs here and what you want from him. So I was reading it and thinking, Does she want more sex from him or what?
I don't know if it is the HD mind that causes this sort of breakdown, but it wasn't at all clear to me what you were asking of him. Intimacy, sharing feelings, yep I got that no problem. Throw the part in about ML and I thought "Does she want that for herself or what?"
But your last post cleared it up, I think. You want him to want you emotionally the way that I want my H to want me phsyically.
I GET THIS now.
Besides in the sack, are there certain time that your H is more open and intimate with you than others? Just curious..
Oh and I totally agree with you on ILU. I get sick of hearing that saying also. It starts to lose its meaning after a while. I need a little creativity and less reliance on that phrase to smooth over the shortcomings, kwim?
Hey girl, Yup...you need to take a break. Go do something you really enjoy. If it is with your H, great...if not, great. Just take a break. Then after that, you can see if my suggestion has any merit. But I think you need to be relaxed and as happy as possible to give it serious consideration. You definitely have to be relaxed and reasonably happy to implement it.
So here are my thoughts:
Your desire is simple. How your H can meet that desire is simple. It is perfectly reasonable and not really that hard, except for one thing. Right now, for him to give it to you means you win. I'm thinking you probably have a pretty good idea of how this little thing about losing/winning can be a HUGE obstacle to overcome .
Competition is the context in which you guys are operating when you're dealing with these issues. At least that's the way it seems to me when you report on your conversations with him. And it isn't just him behaving in a competitive fashion. Competition is frequently the context of situations where people have been arguing or struggling with each other for even a short while. This is a VERY common human problem. It shows up in all kinds of human interactions.
So what to do? Talk about the competition, talk about the whole win/lose thing in general. Talk about it in a friendly, non-competitive way. Use humor. Laugh at yourselves. Find a way to get past the competitiveness. It produces stubbornness.
I haven't followed your thread closely, so please forgive me if I am way out of line. Have you talked to him saying exactly what you said here?
Quote: Honey, I miss you and I need to be close to you. Will you come with me and the boys to hockey practice?
Honey, I miss you and I need to be close to you. Will you sit outside with me while I wash the car?
Honey, I miss you and I need to be close to you. YOU mean so much to me.
It may be as simple as expressing it in a way he understands. Perhaps a talk where you discuss your needs as well as how you understand his needs. The other thing, that I am still having trouble grasping is what is a healthy need vs being needy. PM has gotten me more confused than anything on that.
Another thought, Based on the progress my W and I have made, we've found that middle of the afternoon when the baby is sleeping works much better for us: She's in the mood, not tired, and much more likely to initiate (eg. she walked into my office this morning with nothing on ) . You might try shifting around your schedules to see if communication as well as LM works better at a different time of the day.
I have been thinking about your situation today. It sounds like this is a matter of pride to him. I think that he is intelligent enough that he understands what you are saying and how important it is to you, but he feels that by giving it to you, he would be giving in somehow.
It sounds like this is something that has been a issue for you for a long time, and was tied into the lack of sex earlier in your marriage. I can tell you that despite all the recent progress that (I think) I have made, I still have my moments when I get really pissed that I have to carry the burden for both of us on this, I have to be pleasant all the time, I have to pick up all the extra slack around the house, I have to examine the past and present and make amends, I have to rub his back every time he asks...and all this for what? So I can get laid once a week?
Wait, I know I had a point there somewhere. The point I'm trying to make is that your H still believes that you are SUPPOSED to want to have sex with him. He is harboring a lot of anger towards you for the past. He is very sensitive to this subject because he thinks like any HD - and you KNOW what a bunch of azzholes we are
For me, the one thing that always helps me calm down is thinking it through - according to Schnarch, what happens in all our marriages is inevitable. The only way to the future is to go through what we have gone through. If your H could grasp this, he might be able to deal with the past. I know you've tried to get him to read PM. Is there any chance that he would listen to you if you read out certain relevant passages? It might intrigue him enough to want to read more.
As long as he doesn't resolve this in his mind, he will continue to link your emotional needs with the rejection from the past and it is going to be very hard for him to meet them.
((((((((((Corri)))))))))))))))) I wish I could help more. There are days when I really start spiralling, and the thoughts you have expressed help me preserve my sanity. I hope this helps you some.
Hey Corri, Here is a thought for ya. I know my H wouldn't touch PM with a ten foot pole, it is too large and intimidating. However, he would probably agree to listen to it while he commutes. Would your H go for that?
Your wants seem rather simple enough. I can understand them very well. They are very similar to mine as well as the want for my W to ML to me.
The strange thing is that sometimes when I got the opportunity to have the things I wanted (not the ML that was always ok) I refused to accept it because it was not exactly what I wanted.
For instance, I have toldmy W over and over and over that not only would I love to ML, but I would give just about anything to be able to spend some time with her, just the two of us, doing something I wanted to do. I would suggest going on a conoe trip, go play golf, go to a drive in movie, the list goes on.
She would say, lets go fishing, which we both like to do, and so I would say it sounds great lets wade the river. Her response would be I don't want to wade the river I want to go to the lake. Instead of just saying "hey that would be great" and get the opportunity to spend the time with her I wanted, I would not feel like going to the lake and then what could have been a good thing, something I wanted, became something I had no desire to do and would "stew" the entire time which meant we did not enjoy ourselves and was less likely she would want to do something with me again.
Ok got long winded like usual, but the point is, your H may be offering you some of what you want and you are so focused on EXACTLY what you want you don't see he is at least coming part way.
Very sage. You are more than likely correct. I think in my emotionally starved state, I'm lunging for the smorgassboard and maybe missing the appetizer sitting in front of me.
Although, in the midst of my Pity Party, I am not yet willing to admit that.
However, as Honey pointed out... I want my H to emotionally desire me every bit as much as my H wants me to physcially desire him.... and when I am willing to get out of my Center of the Universe Chair as Queen of All Wants and Needs, bow before me... I shall crown you Sir Dazed and grant you a nice parcel of land to add to your holdings...
Y'all... every single solitary one of you... I'm not listing out names because there are just SO MANY of you who showed up with your wonderful hugs and support... I hear what you all have said, and I've read the posts several times over.
I hear you, I hear you, I really do. Thank you so much for caring. Damit, now I'm getting all teary-eyed and soppy cause you all are such wonderful friends that I don't have...
Quote: I have to be pleasant all the time, I have to pick up all the extra slack around the house, I have to examine the past and present and make amends, I have to rub his back every time he asks...and all this for what? So I can get laid once a week?
WARNING! WARNING! I felt just like this until recently. I know your sich isn't just like mine but I think you should consider the following. If you really feel like you are doing more than your fair share in terms of emotional connection, division of labor and acts of service in order to get laid you will remain resentful. You won't be able to help it because you know that you could easily find a man who would be more than happy to provide you with sex gratis or better. Unless your H has a golden c*ck, this reality is undeniable.
If you deny this reality you are avoiding an aspect of self-confrontation. I know that you feel that you were too b*tchy before, but don't go overboard in the other direction like moi. I told my H that expecting me to "pay" for sex with various favors or acting like he was doing me a favor by having sex with me was absolutely unacceptable and ridiculous. Perhaps I'm wrong and you're a different type of HDW than me, but I knew that since I'm feeling confident about myself sexually, I was going to be facing constant temptation to leave my H for another man if he continued to withhold sex in any way. It's not that I was unwilling to compromise, it's just that I was incapable of pretending to be so mentally impaired that I was going to haggle over the price of peanuts with my H when we both knew that they were giving them away for free along with a complimentary bottle of cola at all the other peanut stands in town.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
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It shows up in all kinds of human interactions.
) . You might try shifting around your schedules to see if communication as well as LM works better at a different time of the day. 