Well, here I am... starting a new thread because the old one doesn't seem like "me" anymore. I hope that this one is going to help me out even more than the other one. We'll see.
Brief summary:
Me = HD ; W = LD ; M = 12 years ; D6 and D2 are "the focus" of most everyday life activities ; W and I both work full-time ; LM is 2-3 times a month at most.
I finished Michele's SSM book about 2 months ago. I talked with my W about my wants and feelings regarding our SSM, and I gave her the book. She seemed interested to learn about what I had been reading. I presented it to her as something that I really enjoyed. Well, my W is on page 50-something still, and it doesn't look like she's reading it anymore. I didn't push her to read it, nor do I really expect her to finish it. I was just hoping for a little miracle.
So, I'm reading Schnarch's PM now. I'm up to Chapter 5 ("Sexual Desire: Who Wants to What?"). I have highlighted a lot of paragraphs so far so that I can go back and find things that "poked my psyche" and such. I like it so far, especially the concent of self-validated intimacy. My W will probably hate it.
At this point, I'm ready to have the difficult talks with my W. I have a tolerance for bullsh*t, and I have been "living with" the LM 2-3 times a month for a long time. My big decisions now are... what should I start with? what do I do when she starts "blaming" things on difficult circumstances in life (the kids, her self-image, her job stresses, and such)? I also wonder... does she need to acknowledge that "there's a problem" with our M before we get anywhere in our discussions?
I've written this before, in other threads here on DB.com, but I might as well write it here at "the beginning" of my own thread: I know that I am part of the problem. I have contributed to the current difficult situation in my M, and I know that I have been, at times, a selfish bastard when it comes to having my way. I do NOT think that I am 100% to blame, nor do I think that past history should be any indicator of future performance. My W's mileage may vary.
I used to sound like a WAH. I used to become quite pissed off at my W for "the way things are" today. I used to be more selfish and less sensitive. I used to expect HER to change for me. I used to deal with the status quo because I was afraid that my W would walk away. As I said above, that's the past.
Now, I want to ML twice a week to maintain my EC to my W (if you know the 5LLs, I'm a Physical Affection guy). I want to be self-validating when it comes to intimacy. I want to be the H that I haven't been for my W. I want to be more happy than sad in life.
I'll do my best to express these wants to my W. We'll see where it goes. PM and I are becoming friends. I hope that my W and I can be "more than friends" sometime soon.
Chris, As you know, I'm pretty new at this, and therefore, probably not the best person to give you advice, but after reading HP's post on my own thread, I thought I'd use this chance to sort of solidify my own feelings before I go 'attack' (just kidding!) the H.
What HP said to me just now about putting things right on the line hit home. I'm definitely a 'peace maker'. I don't like to make waves, and I pride myself on being able to step back, and see the big picture in something, and help others see it.
Problem is, I can't see myself , or see that keeping the peace can often times just make me feel real resentful, and gives me a sort of inflated sense of self (there, I said it, YUK!!)
I guess I felt that I shouldn't express my own needs, 'cause they weren't important, and besides, if I was so good to everyone else, they'd be falling over themselves to be good to me, right?
That does work with my kids, but for two reasons: 1. They need mom to be happy. I'm not far enough along in PM to try to analyze what kind of validation that relationship is, but for young kids, Mom is more a 'port in a storm' than a real live human being with feelings. That learning comes slowly... but
2. My kids want me to feel good, 'cause they know I feel the same way about them. I tell them what I expect from them, I don't allow them to mistreat me, because it's my job as a parent to teach them how to interact with others. So I go out of my way to set a good example for them, and to show them what I need.
So why can't I do that with H????? It is strange how we can't see our own reflection... and now of course, if I go back to no. 2, I owe it to my kids to put it on the line.
I wouldn't worry about what your W thinks. Tell her what you think. Tell her what you feel. And understand that she can't take that away from you. What she does with it, and how you react to that, is another thing entirely.
Sometimes I think that this whole process of reading PM and analyzing the M is making me more LD.
Could it be that, as I'm reading about the "hoops" through which other couples have jumped, I'm doubting that my W and I can ever have such back-and-forth honest discussions?
Could I be becoming resentful of my W's treatment of me and therefore be turning away from wanting to ML because it would be "too good of a reward" for her?
I suppose that anything is possible. I'll have to think on that some more. Maybe my personal C can shed some light on it tomorrow.
Quote: Could I be becoming resentful of my W's treatment of me and therefore be turning away from wanting to ML because it would be "too good of a reward" for her?
I would say you are in a much better sich than most of the HDs on the board if you think your W might view sex as a reward.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: I know what you mean MM, I thought Chris was my H for a sec there.
LOL. If I knew that my H was not having sex with me because he thought it was "too good of a reward" for me, I'd be out looking for action elsewhere immediately with no guilt what-so-ever.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: LOL. If I knew that my H was not having sex with me because he thought it was "too good of a reward" for me, I'd be out looking for action elsewhere immediately with no guilt what-so-ever.
I never thought of it that way... hmmm... and I don't think that I use sex as a weapon in the war of love anyways. 50% chance of staying together, is that what you wrote? I guess I give myself more of a 30% chance if my W finds out everything that I'm thinking about... especially when I start thinking that I wish she WOULD go somewhere else for "action." Those are scary thoughts.
Quote: Sometimes I think that this whole process of reading PM and analyzing the M is making me more LD.
Could it be that, as I'm reading about the "hoops" through which other couples have jumped, I'm doubting that my W and I can ever have such back-and-forth honest discussions?
Could I be becoming resentful of my W's treatment of me and therefore be turning away from wanting to ML because it would be "too good of a reward" for her?
I suppose that anything is possible. I'll have to think on that some more. Maybe my personal C can shed some light on it tomorrow.
- Chris.
I think this is quite natural. I had the same reaction. It happens when you realize how much self-respect you can lose by begging for sex.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
I can't quite figure out if you were telling me that I'm an ass or if you were telling me that I am doing OK. Clue me in, please.
Quote: SM wrote: I think this is quite natural. I had the same reaction. It happens when you realize how much self-respect you can lose by begging for sex.
My W has little respect for me as a spouse - I already know that. As a dad, she thinks I'm doing really well. Go figure. Maybe with my kids, I had the chance to "do it right" the first time, so I did.
I never analyze the sitch from my own perspective, and I think that that's my problem. I will forego my own sanity while "fixing" things for others. It's only when things get really REALLY bad that I actually pay attention. I am on a quest for respect from my W, and I know that it's going to take a loooong time to build that up. I've done some crappy stuff to her (having an A, for one), and now I'm trying to put the past behind me and work on the future.
Every time I make blanket statements somebody jumps on me, but here I go again. I think everything you've said/felt is pretty natural.
My sitch is similar, except that we were ML about twice a year rather than twice a month. W thinks I'm a great father, and as nearly as I can tell, a great H as well. Our only real problem is no sex. W is happy with none, but was relenting with duty sex two or maybe three times a year. My goal is two or three times a week.
About the time I discovered this board, I picked up SSM and devoured it. I hadn't read PM, but I picked up enough here that I had a few of the basic ideas. I initiated "the talk" with W where I told her that I wanted more sex. I'll skip the details as you can find them elsewhere if you're interested. The point is, things have gotten better - not there yet, but better. We're up to every ten days or so. But what I really wanted to address is the D. Even before things started improving, I noticed a drop in my level of D. I wouldn't say that I was LD by any means, but it's more like the comments about debasing myself by begging for duty sex. I had just gotten to the point where I didn't even want it. It's hard to explain the juxaposition of wanting sex so badly and not wanting it at all, but that's where I was. I even posted something here about having sex with W (not ML, duty sex is just sex) and even as I was in the act, I was thinking to myself, "why am I even bothering".
I really don't know where I'm going with this - just rambling. All I can say is to keep trying. We had a watered down version of the talk several times and things are better. We're still only up to about three times a month, but that's a lot better than it was. Also the quality is so much better that I can't even describe it. I don't really know if she's enjoying it or not, but W is at least a willing participant. Where before I got a very clear, "hurry up - do you thing and get it over with" message, now it seems to be done out of an actual desire to please me. I still think we have a ways to go, but things are progressing. So keep your chin up and keep trying.
, or see that keeping the peace can often times just make me feel real resentful, and gives me a sort of inflated sense of self (there, I said it, YUK!!)