Last Fri. we ML briefly at my request. W's response was reasonably unenthusiastic but willing, so what the heck. I spent about 15 minutes but stopped because I really didn't need anymore and she definitely didn't care for more (I asked). It brought some good ec feelings, so it was fine. When I stopped, I went ahead and continued to take care of business myself (somewhat intentionally). W rolled over and asked "um...I didn't think you wanted to do *it*". Me: "I just wanted to be with you for a bit..any more than that would be me using you to 'get off' and I'm not going to do that". W: pleasantly "hmmm...interesting". M: "...but if you ever are just horney, let me know so I can f*ck your brains out". W: laugh "I'll let you know". We played a little more. She told me the "scenario" again...the one where she seduces me when I'm not ready for it. She claims it will be when I'm on a conference call at work and not "ready" and it will be "all about her". I've got to give her credit for at least trying to be creative and bringing the verbal eroticism to the bed when she isn't in the mood. This was almost more ec building than ML. I would like to say it a was a "great" time, but it took too much initiation on my part. Haven't felt real connected this weekend. Tonight was weird. Felt distant but she wanted her usual goodnight kiss.
So I'm hanging out watching TV while she goes to bed. And this freaky movie "Dinner with Friends" is on and crap...it sound's just like this board. We could start a thread on this movie. I'll report back when it's over.
In general, I'm feeling tired of dealing. This is the 4th episode of "tiredness" and it feels like a natural part of the process...I'm now comfortable with this process and am no longer surprised by a lull. I can tell that by tomorrow night, I'll be feisty but I'll just take it easy. Wednesday is is my W's birthday...maybe she'll want a b-day romp (ha!). But seriously. For V day and mothers day this year, I was so excited to do nice stuff for my W. Right now, I'm having a really hard time enjoying the idea of doing something nice for her birthday without it feeling like obligation. Maybe this is how she feels about me? If so, I wish she would be as candid as I have been about her needs...or maybe she's got some magic "love" gene that requires her to need a whole lot less than me. Oh well, I'm wasting too much time worry about what is going on in her head.
Ok, this movie just ended and I just realized that I'd rather screw Dennis Quaid than Andie McDowell. Sorry folks. I'm just getting wacky.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: Right now, I'm having a really hard time enjoying the idea of doing something nice for her birthday without it feeling like obligation. Maybe this is how she feels about me? If so, I wish she would be as candid as I have been about her needs...or maybe she's got some magic "love" gene that requires her to need a whole lot less than me. Oh well, I'm wasting too much time worry about what is going on in her head.
Yes sir, I thought that the motivation behind PM was NOT to care what's in the spouse's head. It's difficult enough to figure out our OWN head(s)!
Having a candid spouse is something that we can all hope for, but the reality of "keeping the peace" gets complicated. I don't want to drive my W away, so I don't tell her what I really think about her. She probably makes peace with me by agreeing with things that she doesn't really agree with. When I get home, let the games begin (or that's often how it feels).
With my OW, I was open and honest, almost brutally so. It was refreshing to be like that with someone, especially after so many years of BS and hiding things and playing games. I'm trying to get my W to be more open and honest, even if she thinks that it will be hurtful. I'd rather know something and deal with it than not know something and wonder about it. Give it to me straight... tell me that I'm an a**hole or that I'm being unreasonable but give me rationale as well. Don't just say "that's ok" or "we could do that" and let it drop.
But then I probably shouldn't have written any of this because recently I've been accused of making every situation about ME instead of about the other person. So, just ignore me.
TNC wrote: ---------------- With my OW, I was open and honest, almost brutally so. It was refreshing to be like that with someone, especially after so many years of BS and hiding things and playing games ----------------
How long since your affair has been over? Has your relationship fully recovered? Would your wife agree?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
That type of "openness" is the 3rd leg of differentiation. My W is very self-validated and can soothe herself very well but her ability to disclose is the part that brings her into equal differentiation with me. The problem is that her self-soothing and inability to disclose basically involve a poor stress management style where she "eats" her stress. Again, I'm not trying to analyze her but it might be more productive to asssert your needs for openness rather than sex. (I'm telling myself this).
Later.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: Right now, I'm having a really hard time enjoying the idea of doing something nice for her birthday without it feeling like obligation.
If you'd do something for her just to ease some pressure/manipulate her in some way, obviously that wouldn't be appropriate. But, if not doing something would also be an attempt to define your worth by what you're doing vis-a-vis her (in this case, by withholding something from her as an act of withholding), would that be any better? What would respect both your core integrity and hers?
If you'd do something for her just to ease some pressure/manipulate her in some way, obviously that wouldn't be appropriate. But, if not doing something would also be an attempt to define your worth by what you're doing vis-a-vis her (in this case, by withholding something from her as an act of withholding), would that be any better? What would respect both your core integrity and hers?
It's a feeling...not a tactic.
But to address your point, I actually did get her something. The act of *not* getting her something is a resentful stance which I don't want to partake though I do feel a little resentful. Anyway, I'm really trying hard to "act" the part of a H in love with his W. Hopefully the behavior will reinforce those true feelings. Behaviors and feelings seem to feed off one-another and in no particular order...I'm behaving like the man I want to be.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Last night, at the end of our show, she said "I know that it's one day early but I can guarantee that I will be too tired tomorrow, so I just wanted to say that I would be willing to ML tonight if you need your (sarc) feeling of 'connection' ". It was pretty annoying to have her phrase it that way. But I didn't reject the offer. I know that my feelings for improve when we ML and even though I wasn't in the mood, I thought I should give it a try.
So she gets herself ready and I come into the bedroom. She's wearing a frumpy nightgown and I don't think I've ever been less attracted to her. (oh man, I'm going to get flamed for this I bet). So I decided that it would be a good time to ask her to try to "seduce" me a little. Her response..."at least I offered...isn't that good enough". So it turned into a 2 hour convo followed by a really good LM session.
This was probably one of the most significant convos I've had with her in terms of crucibles, self-disclosure, etc. I can't even begin to transcribe it. I very proud of my ability to keep it "me focused" and calm.
I asked if she thinks our sex life will improve and she said she didn't know. I defined what "improved" meant but still no response. I asked what she needed to be able to get herself there. She said "nothing". I verified it by asking "so I'm dong everything right?...I don't need to change a thing?". She said "yes". While she was probably lying, it only makes her have to deal with the fact that she can't "open" up and be candid.
At one point, she said that it's really sad that I need sex to feel connected to her and asked me if this is really how I felt. I said "yes..but I also like spending time with you away from the TV and talking...even this convo is giving me a boost".
Anyway, it's too hard to explain this. Last night I was feeling weird. I wanted the "feelings" but I didn't "desire" her. ML would boost my "desire" for her but I had to get in the mood, which I wasn't. I was ambivalent about wanting the EC, but logically knew that I needed it because the alternative is ED which I didn't want. I see the purpose of "natural horniness" now...it's a backup battery. The convo provided enough quality time to get me going to a point that we could ML. A seductive initiation would have been all it took to get me going. I should have just stuck to that point and gone to sleep.
I might be posting some thoughts later.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
