I'm afraid that my wife wouldn't get past #1 on the list. Any two or three would put me in heaven, but then I suppose I'd want more. About a year ago, our marriage went near crisis mode. Panicking, I went to see a counsellor (sp?) by myself. My wife wouldn't go, and was angry that I was going and spilling so many beans, but it is clear that she appreciated the effort, and started being at least more civil. As I tried to become more romantic (to which she replied, "Why do you keep touching me?") she has become more willing to at least be near me.
Baby steps to be sure, but years of neglect take a while to heal. At this point, my list would start with the occasional kiss. Not unreasonable? Well, for her it currently is.
I'm sorry you are here and feeling this way. Please stick around, start your own "journal" thread which starts with the sitch and then try to post your thoughts, ideas, questions, actions and results. There are some smart folks here who are in various stages of their recovery who can help you out.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
I know with my own wife adn with virtually every LD spouse that is mentioned on here, that they tend to need a lot of sleep. Many like to use the excuse that they are to tired for sex. This is a strange concept for me, there is NEVER a time where I am to tired for sex. I love sex in the middle of the night. My wife used to initiate by waking me with her mouth. Now of course, like you , sleep is PREFERRED by my wife over me. Very strange indeed!
From a woman's perspective I can tell you that I really was tired a lot of the time. I think this also came from being on the BC shot. That thing messed me up for a long time. It also came from the fact that I just didn't care. I didn't care for a lot of different reasons. I think I held grudges for too long. I was also under the very wrong assumption that it was okay for me to do this. It took my husband leaving for me to wake up. I would give anything to be able to be with him intimately. Or just be with him period. I hope you guys don't mind a woman's perspective on this.
I read something interesting in a magazine the other week.
It was in reply to a wife who was tired all the time and the response was: If you had all the sleep that you ever desired, would you want sex with him often?
If the answer is yes, then the sleep issue needs addressing.
If the answer is still no, then it goes deeper than sleep.
I thought this was one of the easiest and most understandable ways to point out the the sleep stuff is an excuse. The real problem is that the other partner doesn't want sex and they don't want to have to work through the WHY'S of that at the moment--they just want to go to sleep.
Anyway, I thought that was an interesting little paragraph in that article.
HP...this is a good point. My H mentioned in one of his C sessions that sleep was brought up and the fact that he didn't get enough of it. He's got other issues besides sleep...but we've been working on that one, going to bed earlier (which is really difficult for me, I'm a night owl). Anyway...last night he got over 8-hrs (for once) and commented this moning how good he felt...I actually got the impression if he wasn't on his way out the door for work that he'd have been "in the mood". Hopefully that mood will carry on til I see him this evening...I hope, I hope!
Thanks for all the posts! I'm open to everyone's idea/suggestion. I'm trying not to be pushy or hardlined about any issue. It may not come across here, but I'm pretty much OK with anything as long as we can discuss it. I'll gladly "trade" items on my list for something of equal "value" (like passion or desire).
I'd like to "publicly" commend my W for initiating "wake up" sex the last 2 mornings. Although disagreements kept us from completing sex both times, she deserves kudos for trying. I'm choosing to look at the effort more than the disagreements. (2 straight mornings of right-to-the-edge foreplay)
W seems to feel that I'm being hard on her. I don't doubt that she's right but it's not on purpose. I do, however, again have respect for myself sexually for the first time since we M. And however poorly I communicated, my unwillingness to violate my "integrity issues" any longer is the only reason that things are changing.
My primary goals: 1. Encourage W in the steps she's making 2. Try to undo the hurtful messages I've sent in the past due to sexual frustration, ignorance and immaturity
Thanks to everyone for info provided here. Even bad ideas have helped me form my own.
Mike - hopeful of a great sex life w/a wonderful W
HP asked: What are you being hard on her about? ___________________________
She has accused me of being hard on her from the beginning of our M. I can be opinionated and stubborn, and if you push me too far I become the unmoveable object.
I came into our M with the idea that sex was going to be "anything and everything". Unfortunately, I didn't inform her of that plan and found out quickly that she came in with a different idea. You can guess the rest, I try to dive in, she says NO, I get mad...blah, blah, blhh.
Admittedly, I wasn't understanding of her feelings and said some pretty hurtful things along the way. Eventually, I became the "immoveable object" and refused to try any longer. In fact, only TSSM and PM helped me understand that it was an itegrity issue. That diffused a lot of anger for me.
But, my W hasn't seen much reason to distinguish my "integrity issues" from my previous "rejection anger". (It's only been a few months.) So, she thinks I'm still angry and uncaring, it seems. I'm neither, but I have deliberately made sure not to get too excited about changes. IMO, some of her claims are reactions to past hurts, but I admit that I may be blind to how I come across to her, too.
I've wondered if she thinks that I'm trying to get back at her by "calling the shots" now. Sometimes it seems that way. But as mentioned above, I'm just settled on where I am and what I will no longer accept. Hopefully, she'll see that in time.
I don't expect her to do all the changing. I'm more than willing to accept responsibility for myself. With a little assurance that the present changes are the beginning of a new way for us, I'll bend over backwards to make sure she feels loved (in her way).
I guess she feels like I did for many years: that she has to jump through hoops to get me to give her what she needs. It sucks having to prove yourself to someone you love, but we all have to sometime. I'll do my share in this, too.
Please take her side and let me know where I'm being a jerk. I want to know. I am opinionated and stubborn, but I'm willing to bend. I just want to know there's something in it for me, too.
Mike - aware of wayyyy too much fusion in this post
Mike, The only thing that was jumping out at me (and boy did it jump) was the idea that she has to show some change before you will show her love, in her way.
I think the essence of PM is that you state your needs and then back off and be a stellar spouse and give them room to meet them. Demanding that your needs be met and then sitting back and waiting for the person to either knock your socks off or totally disappoint you will be a losing battle. (I have lost this battle personally, so I believe I know whereof I speak)
My advice is to be loving and kind to her while still maintaining what you will and will not accept from your sex life. I KNOW this is a hard line to walk..
She must feel your love and your acceptance of her willingness to change in order to be ABLE to change.
In other words, stand your ground but don't be an azzhole about it.
Good luck and send Mrs. Fife my love and horniness (and I mean that sincerely! She sounds like a great wife)
(2 straight mornings of right-to-the-edge foreplay)
