Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Wedding band now gone, hers that is -

Hi OTB (nice name),

Thanks for your kind thoughts, worth more than 2 cents. Yeah, it feels like things are, sadly, converging. W's main complaint was that I am not strong enough and never fight back, which is true, I am not a dominant person (INTJ personality type) and don't like conflict. This is one thing I haven't worked on at all - perhaps the D warning would function as such? Should I try this avenue? Patience, kindness, presents, letting her go - all of these have been tried and failed. Wonder if there is a course in fighting? Also have not tried hormone based perfumes, which are supposed to make you appear dominant -

W thinks we should sell house (on Lake Malaren) in the not too distant future, before the water rises. The way things are going, it may be sooner than that.

Du har ett mycket fint engelska -

My gas consumption could be different?

Luke

Hi again OTB,

Did you have any ideas on the vacation thing? My feeling now is to go someplace W will want to go too.

Secretly planted tulips coming up - W seems somewhat pleased.

Luke

LL

I agree with saving the money - no to Boston - have your parents
visit you both...don't accommodate her, it's family time...until
papers are signed - she's part of it.

Hi Luke!

I've been busy but have time to reply now. About the vacations, nix any vacation that doesn't include the two of you as a parental unit. period.

You've got to work harder at being detached, but still provide opportunity for togetherness. Family activities need to be stepped up and once in awhile invite the wife out for a dinner, just off the cuff.

Get on with your life, get healthy and get that gleam back in your eye. Use your wolf eyes to see how the female population reacts, not just your wife. After all, you may be back on the market soon but whatever happens you need to find a good attraction index for yourself. New clothes, new cologne, new habits.

You need to find your "bad boy". He's in there, he's just been pushed down. Be the man, act like a man and remember to remain calm with a "ok, I'll still go" attitude when you ask her out. Begin to go out, get to find where people in your age hang out and get there with or without the wife. Create mystique. You know, get a life.

This has gone on for so long she thinks your predictable. Shake her up. Let her know you miss the sex and intimacy and that you're going to start looking for it from her but that you're not going to hold your breath. After all, youre THE MAN. Attractive, funny, a bit disrespectful in the right places.

That's the way I see it. Get your machismo back, if nothing else it will help with attracting a new mate in the future and girls HATE too much predictability.

That's at least a nickels worth.

OTB

On last thing, Luke.

Time for her to pick up the parental duties. Split everything 50% if you're planning on sharing in the future, otherwise make sure you take care of it while leaving plenty of ME time. Time for your own mini-QLC (Quality Life Change). Arrange a babysitter, I know they're tough to find here in Sweden but they are around. Don't be so available her. You are, from this moment on, no longer at her beck and call. If it fits your schedule, fine, if not...she's SOL.

OTB

Hej OTB and 1210,

Thanks for the long replies - lots to think about (more response later). For the moment, hot from the front:

Two new twists - now W seems to accept going to Boston (hm... wonder what changed?) and she has been paid for a job with a significant check. It will be interesting to see if she puts this check into our common account or if it disappears somewhere else. Putting it in the common account would be most fair, as I've been paying for everything for years, after all...

I somehow feel more at peace, too, probably due to the lack of things to anger or upset me for a while. My commitment to a D is
reduced...

The 50/50 split thing will be hard for her, as I make much more than she does - maybe a fair compromise is to have her pay her airfare to Boston and contribute to the general welfare?

White caps on the lake, splashing on the sidewalk next to it, windy but getting slowly less (good, since I need to run 20 miles on Sunday), clanking sounds from the flagpole and houses around -

Gotta go - later -

Luke

Luke,

I want you to look at this from the outside for a minute. A man lives with a woman but doesn't have sex with her. He's done it for three years. What advice would you give this person from the outside?

I know that you don't want a D. But you do need to take a look at reality. Take all the bills and split them 50/50. If she has time to have a toyboy she has money to pay the bills.

Earlier I was talking about splitting 50-50 about child handling responsibilities. But when you mentioned economy it just stuck. It doesn't have to be much, but you need to point out that you will eventually withdraw your economic support and it would be good if you opened an account where you both do direct deposits. You don't have to split 50-50, but you do need to do something. Reality is a harsh mistress. She needs to wake up and you're not doing anything to wake her.

What advice would you give yourself in this instance?

OTB

Hey Luke. I haven't heard the word Machismo in a long long time....

Look I agree with 1210, nix the Boston trip if she doesnt want to join in. Travel around Europe with the kids together or something.

Luke, at some point you are going to have had enough my friend. You will know when that time is, and only you will know. You have shown such amazing love and regard for your wife through all of this and have stood by a woman longer than most men would have. That tells me a great deal about your character and I respect you immensely. Do not worry about getting a D, do not put any self imposed guidelines on a time frame, and do not back off of the person that YOU decided to be throughout this three years.

You will know when the time is right for you to file and get a D and walk away from yoru marriage. If you follow th ethreads around here those who do get there all have one thing in common. They hit a point where they just knew flat out that it was time to call it quits. You don't know that yet, it's obvious as you still want to plan things with her and do things with her. When you get there you will know.

You just keep on taking care of yourself my friend, do not worry about becoming "the man" or being someone that you are not. We've had that discussion before. You are not an alpha male, and that is ok. Just keep being yourself, the great guy that you are and evrything in your life will work itself out the way that it is supposed to.


Ian

Hi sofaraway and onthebeach,

Thanks for your constructive and compassionate postings. They gave me a lot to think about.

Yes, seen from the outside D is the only logical answer if no improvement in our marriage occurs. Maybe my telling her it is
over will provide the necessary motivation - the last chance. The only question is when to file, and I think this has to feel right, be a decision calmly taken (not in anger, like for xample last night, when I walked in on W text messaging to presumably OM, whereupon she turns the phone face down) and fit the constraints of the external world.

I still think the best is to go to Boston together (so my parents can see us together one last time, something they have
wanted for a while), pass most of a summer nicely together (including W's birthday, late July), then let her know I have filed in early August, before the school year starts again so we have the fall to prepare. It would be nice to have clarity for my
50th birthday in December (when I will probably move back to Boston, btw, to my parents for at least a little while, to a well-paying job with my dad, and a city with lots of single women. W will presumably stay in Sweden).

Here is a dispassionate email I think I might send her when the time is right:

-,

Notice of divorce initiation

Final effective date: Dec 16, 2007 (or so)

Reasons:

o abandonment, emotional and physical, for over three years
o adultery, persisting despite a request for it to stop
o refusal to go to counseling and work on our marriage


Consequences:

o final separation
o financial independence
o sale of house
o division of goods


Luke


Is that empty enough of feelings?


Just came home from running 23 miles, met no welcome or sympathy, but wth, WAW are often self-centered and I am tough
enough to deal with it.

What a waste D is - what a loss of happiness, yes, even if only partial - what devastation and pain and lousy memories to give your kids -

From a gray Swedish Sunday -

Luke

Ola -

Yet another development - W appears interested in traveling to India sometime, judging from a brochure I have seen floating around. What should I say if she proposes to go there "alone"? Say we want to be with her? She could tactically do this during the school year and preclude any possiblity of the kids and I tagging along (maybe this will be after I tell her I filed anyway, and won't matter).

Last summer she spent 2-3 days alone (really?) at a youth hostel near Gothenburg. What do I say if she wants to take a break without us again this summer?

Interestingly, an Indian guy we know, who was cheating on his W with a girlfriend of my W, would probably be someone she (they?) visit. He ended up not leaving his W since his daughter suffers from a skin condition that is significantly worsened by stress and a D (Indian guy and his W) would be quite serious for her.

Oh the many twists and turns marriage problems can take -

Luke