I believe that maybe what I should have said is soul mates instead of lovers. What I want is the highest form of relationship, an all inclusive relationship. Companionship is NOT a complete relationship, it is much lower on the ladder. I want a relationship that IS companionship AND lovers AND best friends and (fill in the blank). If that is what soul mates are, then I guess that would be it.
CeMar...what IF...your W has never been your "soul mate". You do not creat a soul mate, you just "are" soul mates. That's a connection that just happens between two people, it cannot be fabricated if it doesn't exist already.
If that's truly your goal, then you are going to be swimming against the current for a very long time.
Honestly...why do you insist on only getting your "ideal"...what if your "ideal" isn't your W's...and then she's left to be miserable, why does there not appear to be any compromise with you? Why do you not ever set smaller attainable goals? If you do this you certainly don't share it, and I don't see it. I really don't see you setting a small goal to tackle, and then moving onto another small goal etc....in order to get to a larger end goal. With you (in my perception) it's either this or that, and it's all her fault.
As fearless has already pointed out to you, you may believe what you say is true about women and companionship but you'd be wrong for a great majority of women. Women crave intimacy as much as you do, even the LD ones. We all just have different ways that intimacy is achieved.
Lets use the head example here. She could give me head because I ASK her to, or she could surprise me and do it because she WANTS to do me. The latter will make HUGE deposits in the love bank, whle the first will not. Sex is an incredible MIND game. It is not really about the orgasam, it is about WHY you do it. This is why I always come back to desire. You have to make the other person feel like you WANT to give them ??? rather then I do ??? to keep you happy. And it is easy to distinguish between the two. Body language will give you away.
Though you didn’t answer my earlier question, or any other question I ever asked you, this response sheds a little light. How do you know the difference in body language that your W expresses versus some one else that you seem to have in mind? Did your W ever give the body language you describe? Did she ever want and desire you as you say, at least before you got married? What type of language are your looking for and how do you know it is sincere?
For instance, girls at topless bars are experts at cozying up to patrons and making them feel like they are king of the world (before every one gets started, I’ve been to topless bars about 3 times, about 20 years ago, for bachelor parties or a night out with broker reps.) Anyway, these girls really know how to turn on the body language, how to make a man feel special, how to listen to them, how to look into their eyes, the whole shebang. And they can be very convincing. That is their stock and trade, to keep the men coming back. Yet in reality, they could care less about those guys. It is all for the money.
Is this the sort of thing you are wanting and where did you experience this before? Your openness to a "snowball," your use of porn, knowledge of sex toys, yet claims of being an elder in your church have me quite confused......
I agree with your analysis...and enjoy your in-depth and thought-provoking posts on this and other threads. Reading them has, of late, become one of the highlights of my day.
{how's that? ;))
Originally Posted By: fearless
(...what about YES I think you are a beautiful woman.)
She IS. you should see her. And I DO tell her that...although, probably not enough. she seems to get annoyed by it, though.
Originally Posted By: fearless
Plus with Mrs.CAC4 here, it is obvious you have your wife working WITH you even if it doesn't always FEEL that way.
Oh, it DOES feel that way, but sometimes, I might feel like she's barking up the wrong tree...But I do SO appreciate the fact that she's trying so hard and has done all that she has. As I've said before, it puts me way ahead of many of us here.
Good, but what does it say about me that I want to hear the tone of your voice to see what level of sarcasm is there? On second thought PLEASE DON'T tell me what it says!
but sometimes, I might feel like she's barking up the wrong tree
Gee I have no idea how annoying, frustrating, etc. that can feel. Sorry.
Fearless: what about YES I think you are a beautiful woman. CAC4 She IS. you should see her.
I can tell you really mean that. I hope she is reading this!!
she seems to get annoyed by it, though.
Well, WOA isn't my specialty so you'll actually have to ask her for some help. Maybe she doesn't quite believe it at times or maybe thinks it's about getting your LL (quid pro quo style)or maybe there's not enough WOA about her other great qualities (From what I can tell - great mother, wonderful and gentle spirit WITH great passion, etc.), I just don't know.
I do SO appreciate the fact that she's trying so hard and has done all that she has.
Attaboy!! A very sincere and complimentary thank you for MrsCAC4.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
So what would a marriage counsellor do? I don't want my wife doing something she does not want to, but I also believe that my expectation of head (with swallow) is a legitimat position. And it seems clear that plenty of women on her enjoy doing it.
Legitimat position? What about a want that most likely will not be fulfilled?
On Mojo's list, I have gotten the 11)Hand part, minus the cheek. So maybe I shouldn't have M BB? Well, the regular sex was great at one time.
1)60 but no 9. 2)Double teabag 3)Thumb suck 4)Nipple/Cock/Nipple/Cock 5)Ice Job 6)Standard Slow/fast/Stop/start 7)Prostate massage 8)Full Out Scary Swallow 9)Just the tip with hand swirl 10)Where is my mouth? 11)Hand to cheek
Good, but what does it say about me that I want to hear the tone of your voice to see what level of sarcasm is there? On second thought PLEASE DON'T tell me what it says!
good grief!! I'll tell ya what it says. it says "I can't win with you women". sheesh! there was no "tone of voice", because I didn't actually SAY anything. They were typewritten words. go read 'em again...don't read INTO them. Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. this is one of those times.
I just would like Cemar to get to the point where he doesn't depend on his wife or others to "make" him feel okay about himself.
This is a big problem. This would mean that if a man has no lover in his life, he should be just as happy as those that do. Afterall, everything he wants in life, he should be able to create in himself. But if this were true, then why would men marry women. If all I need is my buddies, some beer, and a dog to be "ok" with myself, then that is where I would be, instead of pounding my head against the wall because of my wife. There is a reason men need women. Women have things to offer men that we can NOT do for ourselves.
Wanting someone to desire ourselves is validation, and I guess that is bad. So how does one get to the point that they don't care if they are ever desired. That is effectively what is being asked here.
Seriously it says much more about ME that I "suspected" sarcasm. Actually I didn't really suspect it from you but because my relationships involve a lot of sarcasm it wouldn't have been a BAD thing.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
The whole problem with SSM's is there really are no good compromise positions. Lets take something easier the BJ's. Kissing. I love french kissing, it is a VERY intimate act. She hates it. I do not want to kiss someone that does not want to kiss me, there is no point to that.
