Oh, Mrs. Cac, thank you for finding that article. I reread it, and I'm still impressed with it.
CeMar, if you haven't already, maybe you'd be willing to read the article... there is also a survey there... but I can tell you, self diagnosis is not the way to go. What I would do is print the article and take it to your doctor with you. IMPO.
I'm going to weigh in as the semi-contrarian here in Cemar-land. Now as I understand it your situation is that your W will have sex with you if you request it but she expresses no desire for sex and exhibits no behaviors that you would interpret as desire during the act. In addition, she has refused to perform certain sexual acts such as giving you head. Am I correct so far?
IMO, the question is to what extent are you looking for validation and to what extent are you simply looking for higher quality sex? When discussing the concept of higher quality sex, I suppose it would be appropriate to use the standard set by Savage and assume that you want your wife to be a lover who is "good", "giving" and "game". So let's examine her refusal to give you head. IMO, that means that she is not "good" in bed because giving head is really part of the standard repertoire of sexual behavior and refusing to do it means that she is pretty lame in bed. One could also argue that she is not "giving" because clearly you really would like to get head and she is not showing a generous spirit in denying you this pleasure. The fact that she is not "game" is obvious based on her refusal to perform an act that could only be defined as kinky by the most sexually repressed members of our society. OTOH, it could be the case that she could/would be a more GGG lover with a man whose behavior was other than yours. Hard to say.
Back to the issue of validation. If your real problem is not that you simply want better sex but that you need a display of desire from your wife in order to feel desirable then that is another matter altogether. Although, based on my own experience, it's really hard to judge your "neediness" in this matter within the context of a SSM. I'm getting tons of validation now from all the men of Match but I still want some high quality sex big time. So, I think that there really is a limit to the whole sexual desire = search for validation of desirability concept. Sometimes you really just want to get laid and you want to get laid by a partner who wants to get laid too because that just makes it so much hotter for the same simple reason that one's day is made a bit more pleasant when the stranger you smile and say "Hello" to in passing smiles and says "Hello" in return. Human beings are social/sexual animals and we are very biochemically receptive and sensitive to how are messages are received and reflected back at us.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
MJ let me pipe in here if I may, if I remember corectly I think in the past Mrs.Cemar did not show much inhibitions towards oral sex and was GGG in the begining of the relationship. My wife was GGG in the begining of the relationship as well as far as trying anything. You can reduce your need for validation and change the dynamics of the situation but how do you help someone regain their ability to be GGG or even ggg. They truely have to want it for them selves that is frustrating.
Different people here talk from different places, Cemars frustration, pain and anger is a huge part of the HD/LD story and I think that's why people tend to be down on him, they want their own pain, frustration and anger just to go away.
I didn't recall that Mrs. Cemar was different. That does rather change the dynamic. My H was consistently LD right from the start of our relationship (he would come over and sleep with me and not have sex when we were dating) so that developing LD as the relationship progresses problem didn't really apply. I guess the answer to regaining lost GGG would probably involve changing the dynamic of the relationship in such a way that the conditions of initial courtship were once more in place psychologically. The only way to do that IMO is to simultaneously start courting your wife but also make it clear that the continuation of the relationship is not inevitable under present circumstances.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
When discussing the concept of higher quality sex, I suppose it would be appropriate to use the standard set by Savage and assume that you want your wife to be a lover who is "good", "giving" and "game".
I am not familar with this definition. This seems to make the wifes role as receptive, where is assertive in this? Where is desire?
Quote:
If your real problem is not that you simply want better sex but that you need a display of desire from your wife in order to feel desirable then that is another matter altogether.
Does this mean that I should be ok if I am not desired? I would think that virtually EVERYONE, even LD's want to be desired. I am not sure why we are telling HD men that us guys just have to give up the whole desire thing, while everyone else GETS TO HAVE IT.
When it comes right down to it, aren't relationships ALL ABOUT DESIRE? I really have a hard time trying to get to the point where sex is just a physical process and I should not use it for validation in anyway.
One of the most common complaints in marriage counselling is women that DID oral before marriage and after the ring is on the finger, they do not do it. Major cause for divorce. My wife used to do me while I was driving down the highway (on her own). Now she says that it is gross, that it hurts her jaw, that she will throw up if she trys. True intimcy in marriage can not be achieved without great head.
So what would a marriage counsellor do? I don't want my wife doing something she does not want to, but I also believe that my expectation of head (with swallow) is a legitimat position. And it seems clear that plenty of women on her enjoy doing it.
The one common theme you keep coming back to is desire. Can you define that, and I don't mean the simple statement that your wife initiates or says she want to ML with you. That is superficial. If your W could show you desire as you want it, what would that look like through your eyes and would it do for you inside, on an emotional level, for your sense of bonding with your wife, for how you feel about yourself, that sort of thing.
You are hung up on desire and I can't really put my finger on exactly what it is you want. I can't say that I am sure love is part of this. Can you expound?
I am not familar with this definition. This seems to make the wifes role as receptive, where is assertive in this? Where is desire?
The GGG rule applies to women and men. It describes what you could/should reasonably expect from a reasonable lover. Desire is not a reasonable expectation because people can't control their desire. For instance, Let's say you were with a woman who had a fantasy that you would dress up like a circus clown and do perverse things with your nose. Would this turn you on? Would you do it anyway? Would you do it because turning her on would turn you on? Would you do it because she gave you a great blow-job last night? Would you do it because you loved her? Would you do it because you were afraid she'd leave you and run away and join the circus if you didn't? Would you do it just because you want to maintain the standard of being GGG? Great sex is rarely a compromise. Great sex happens when both people get just what they selfishly desire. What does your wife selfishly desire? Do you have a clue?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
