Wow! I love the way he has risked a lot to open up to you and I think your response was good!
By the way your comments about closing the exits reminds me of Frank Pittman's comment about marriage being like a submarine - they only work if you are COMPLETELY IN.
You validated his feelings without telling him to change them. You just asked that the two of could look to each other for help.
You do realize that this does entail some work for you too, right? I thought you owned up to your issues well and I think you'll have to be the one who shows the most initial change and stays most consistent on not avoiding with work, reading and the internet. Not that it is fair but that is probably the best way to get your H on-board.
If you have a chance look at the info on the website about cognitive behavior therapy (CBT). I posted in under the title of "tangent from hairdog - cognitive behavior therapy." This is to your comment about leaving the FOO issues alone. I know when my therapist spoke to me about CBT we first looked at the issue in my current life and figured out the core belief I needed to being challenging with my automatic thoughts and intermediate beliefs. We did not even talk about possible FOO issues until after the initial CBT was started.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Thanks. Actually, I am a mental health professional by trade and H is a management consultant who specializes in "leadership and communication". So, we are pretty much experts in respectful communication. We are also experts in deflection by communication.
I am very familiar with CBT and also brief therapy and see it as much more effective with most things. It is at least important to get some therapuetic movement before worrying about where it all came from and why. Most people pretty easily recognize their FOO stuff when they see it. I'm glad you've found it useful. Sure beats endless discussion about Mom and Dad.
The thing is that I have changed every which way during this R and still remain sex starved. My exits are usually in response to H's. He usually executes the pre-emptive strike and then I avoid confronting it because I fear anger, confrontation and whatever may be the "last straw". I guess what is different about this communication is that I didn't shy away from basically saying to him "You act like a guy on your way out and that scares me" and I know what you are doing to avoid. I've never been quite so blunt about it before. I hope we get somewhere with it because my 36 1/2 week pregnant @ss can't take much more isolation.
Most people pretty easily recognize their FOO stuff when they see it.
While that is true, I think people are also good about seeing it but not really "SEEING" how it specifically affects a particular issue. That's why starting with the CBT is good to get things moving and then can do specific analysis about family issues as they come up in relation to your core belief issue.
The thing is that I have changed every which way during this R and still remain sex starved.
Long story short, that's how I felt in my marriage except the more accurate description was love-starved. My issue was getting XH to understand that quality time was extremely important to me and that without it I struggled with how to know he loved me. (I did not know about LL but that is what I think is the similarity to me with the SSM people. Sex always seems bigger and more important but in the end it really is about having your LL met.)
I have to say though that my XH NEVER gave me that openness and feeling of vulnerability that your H just gave you.
By the way H is a management consultant who specializes in "leadership and communication".
That is a field that greatly interests me. I interact career wise very differently than I do in relationships. To me, they are different in that things are only as personal as you let them be in business while a relationship is ALL personal. Anyway... my point is that he could be an excellent consultant for management and still be lousy at communicating with you personally. That might be a key for you so make sure he understands you are not insulting or demeaning his ability in his profession when you talk about your communication issues.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I appreciate your comments. It is actually a family joke that H doesn't communicate at home the way he does in his profession. Neither do I. The work persona and the home are very different. However, because of our professions we do communicate better than most and don't make too many of the elementary mistakes "you always", "you never" that short-circuit communication. We have issues with the negotiation part that comes next. This is where we usually fall off.
Yes -sex and love are intimately intertwined but my R IS more sex than love starved. Frankly, I can ask for QT from H and get it when I want it. When I point out the lack of sex he offers me QT. When I point out the lack of touch - we go out to dinner and I get great conversation. H and I are easily able to be vulnerable to each other about emotions and it is quite a gift from another human being. I know he loves me but a lot of times I feel loved like a good friend. He always claims that I am a wonderful spouse and pretty much meet his LL needs - primarily acts of service and QT.
There is some hang up with putting himself "out there" physically. I used to think the hang up is me, my appearance, my approach, my 1/2 of the partnership or something. Now I think it has much more to do with something in him that requires a bunch of conditions be met before having a sex life is ok and allowable. Like he has to be a certain something, has to have things in order etc...in order to be sexual.
Who the heck knows. He actually thanked me for the reply that I posted and said that he knows I am trying to help, he appreciates it and he feels conflicted on many fronts. Where to go from here? This is the point where we generally hang up and don't move past. We all understand where the other is coming from. Now what?
Yes -sex and love are intimately intertwined but my R IS more sex than love starved. Frankly, I can ask for QT from H and get it when I want it. When I point out the lack of sex he offers me QT. When I point out the lack of touch - we go out to dinner and I get great conversation. H and I are easily able to be vulnerable to each other about emotions and it is quite a gift from another human being. I know he loves me but a lot of times I feel loved like a good friend. He always claims that I am a wonderful spouse and pretty much meet his LL needs - primarily acts of service and QT.
Karen,
Aren't you pointing out why it is called a LL? When I asked my XH for QT because I NEEDED it, he would point to our SL (which is a close second in my LL) and his appreciation of me to show that he loved me. I appreciate and love those things but QT is how I KNOW I am loved and without it I feel adrift. He refused to acknowledge that need as legitimate (well to be fair he had other issues of his own that were emerging in unhealthy ways)
So does your H understand that although you meet his LL needs that your LL is not met? Does he understand the physical touch LL includes more than just sex?
The trick about the LL is that ALL of them are truly needed in a good relationship. I thought the GENIUS of the book and idea is that although they are all needed and appreciated there is usually ONE that is THE thing that gives someone that feeling of LOVE versus love. At least that's what I took from it. And when you can recognize AND respect each other's LL WITHOUT judgment, then the relationship can bloom.
I also thought it helped explain why a relationship feels so good initially, in addition to all the other obvious things. At the beginning of a relationship there is usually extra attention to all 5 LLs. As the relationship cools, as it must, people drift into paying attention to the 1 or 2 LL they are comfortable with which is great if a couple has the same LL but much more difficult if there LL are different.
Just my take on it.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I guess I just don't understand why he would want to have another child. I know I read in your posts he wanted this badly it seemed. But it just doesn't seem like it. If he wanted it so bad why would he be talking about stress and crashing and money worries. Because adding another child increases the budget even more.
I think you did great with your e-mail. Sometimes this is a problem you have to tackle head on and be as blunt as ever. I know with my husband I don't think we would have ever made any headway if I hadn't addressed this issue very bluntly and persistently.
Why do you think he see's his life as having so much stress in it? I also know you have mentioned he trains a lot. So he is probably in way better shape then a lot of men his age.
The only solution is to muddle through crisis, disaster, happy times etc ... hand-in-hand. We need to each start closing our personal exits (you know - work, computers, masturbation instead of sex, busyness etc...) and face each other. I have been pretty blunt here. The bottom line is that I love you and I am putting myself waaaaaaaaaay out on a limb to say - please, let's try (however imperfectly) to be each other's soft place to land. I love you and I assume that you have shared these things because you love me too. Closing the exits, forgiving and accepting each other and moving forward is the only place I know to start.
Wow, I don't know how I missed this (reply to your husband) yesterday. Must've been tuned out.
This is great. I love the "let's try (however imperfectly) to be each other's soft place to land."That's some beautiful and powerful imagery there, karen. (note to self: steal this line).
I really wish HP were here to help with the pregnant/horny vibes you're sending out.
I think you're on the right track, and good luck with the vacation. When are you leaving? (Note to Karen: bring lots of towels, clean newspaper, a couple of big garbage bags to save the seat covers, a butane stove, and a pot of water to boil. Oh...and a camera!)
My illustration does indeed point out why LL is important and why respecting the other's LL is important. However, time and time again on this board we have discussed the fact that meeting the other's LL makes for a happier overall marriage but rarely results in the higher desire partner getting more actual sex. My H can acknowledge my need for PT verbally but DOING it (all kinds of touch) seems a different matter altogether. We have a long way to go on this.
Trying,
When my H is talking about stress etc...he is literally referencing every other thing in our lives EXCEPT having the baby. That is the single thing that he sees as going well. He is talking about "if" I were to get pregnant again and have another (believe me, I'm not thinking that direction). He doesn't connect new baby stress to the other stuff AT ALL. This is something he has wanted his entire life - he didn't marry until he was 36 and this is his second biological child. He has personally raised about 18 foster children -most were before we ever met. Having as many children as possible is what he sees as his "mission" for lack of a better word.
Journey and H-dog,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. We shall see. I have printed emergency childbirth instructions and have insisted that we bring the new baby's car seat, the hospital bag and various and sundry with us on our trip for next week. My belly is so low it shows in all my maternity clothes. I don't know if I will last until April 21.
Hey H-dog - if you use my line Mrs. HD will think you are talking about her breasts when you say "soft place".
Note to Karen: bring lots of towels, clean newspaper, a couple of big garbage bags to save the seat covers, a butane stove, and a pot of water to boil. Oh...and a camera!)
What about ripping up sheets? They do that in some old black & white western TV programs.
