Heather....Hi, my name is GEL....and I'm addicted to divorcebusting.com LOL I try to stay away and keep coming back.
I'm not here as often as I have been in the past but here I am again...I had a few moments and caught up on your sitch. When you two have a conversation like the one you described it seems to me that (from an outside perspective) you are each trying to prove yourself "right" and the other person "wrong" in your conversation. You may not view it that way, but I can tell you in the past...I've had many VERY similar conversations with my H. Even when "I" didn't feel I was trying to prove him wrong...wasn't even using those words....my H still heard in his head me saying "you're wrong, I'm right!" He would fight me tooth and nail not to be wrong....because he felt inferior if he was.
Finally one day, when I was getting nowhere in the conversation...I just said "I see your point and it's a good one, my point is valid too though...there is room for both in the solution to this." It took a few moments for my H to realize what I was saying...he became so focused on proving himself right and insisting that I was trying to prove him wrong that he didn't catch what I was saying at first...I had to repeat it a few times.
Seems to me that in your situation there is room for compromise in this area....start the bedtime routine earlier. That way your H gets to show what he believes to be important (completing tasks) and you get to show that a regular bedtime and a good nights sleep are also important. Starting it earlier may not be "convenient" for either of you, but it's part of the compromise.
Yes, when H and I disagree, it's definitely a win-lose scenario as in 'I'm right and you're wrong'.
I try to set it up differently, so that it's not so much a win-lose, it just never works. Last nigth I told H that I understood the point he's made in the past that S6 needs the one-on-one time that he gets after D4 goes to bed. I said maybe we can figure out a way to work that in some other way. For instance, maybe we can schedule a few hours each week or every other week where we rotate between mommy and S6 and Daddy and D4 and vice versa. H's answer to that was that 'it doesn't work that way. the time isn't something you can 'save up'.
GEL, I try really hard to be fair and reasonable and I truly don't want to be the type of person that people look at and say 'she has to have everything her way'. With that being said, I just don't think it's reasonable to say that a good bedtime for a 6 year old is 10:15pm. In my eyes, it's practically an absolute, especially when S6 is falling asleep twice in the same night. S6 has also had behavior problems at school lately, particularly PE. We got a phone call last week and I have a parent-teacher conference tomorrow. I think that a lot of the reason for his behavior issues are that he's tired! He'll have a temper tantrum at home and then fall asleep shortly after.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Great idea! It appears to be a reasonably achievable task with this example because there is a way for Heather to show respect for her H's opinion about son completing tasks by starting the tasks earlier at night while also achieving her goal of getting her son to bed on time which is also important.
This is where she has to do some extra work to ensure the tasks start early enough that they can be done at the appropriate bedtime but that extra effort would show her H 3 important things 1) that she listened and respected his opinion (She could even say out loud to son, with H there, we need to start this earlier because your father is right that you need to learn to complete tasks that you start), 2) is taking action to support his views (make the tasks start early or do not start them at all if there is not enough time to complete them by bedtime - another good lesson:)) and 3)that she still respects her views enough to not back off and to do "extra" work to ensure the importance of getting enough sleep is recognized. I think her husband will respect her for sticking up for her views in this manner. FWIW many doctors and educators have been writing about the serious issue of too little sleep in school children.
Heather,
Good Luck with all of this. You "sound" tired. Take care of yourself too
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
(Heather) We got home at about 8:45. We came in, I got D4 ready for bed and asked S6 to finish his milk, at which point H says 'He has time'. I said 'I'd like to get him bedtime started early tonight.'
(GEL) Seems to me that in your situation there is room for compromise in this area....start the bedtime routine earlier.
Isn't that exactly what Heather was trying to do?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
In my view, I do not think there is any issue with Heather being willing to compromise. I think the issue becomes how to do it with the dynamic with her H and I hope none of us will pretend like that is going to be an easy task for Heather. There will be LOTS of foresight and planning she will have to do to accomplish this. It's not that she isn't willing in my mind; it's just that it will take an extra amount of work on her already busy life. It's so easy for me to point out that looking back on her example last night the fact that they went out to dinner late was an issue. So maybe she has to do extra grocery shopping, stick up to her H, etc. in order to say at times, "it is too late to go out to dinner. Since we have tasks that need completed and a bedtime to meet, we MUST be home at xx time." This will probably not be easy.
BB, You are absolutely right to point out that the problem is not necessarily that Heather is not willing to compromise, it is in the details of managing it that are difficult. And I do worry that she seems so tired and overwhelmed that this seemingly "easy" solution of starting the bedtime routine earlier is not as simple as it seems.
Chin up Heather. You are doing the best you can and that's all you can do. I'm not even a mother and I can see how difficult it was in my life to keep a schedule because things pop up. I cannot imagine how difficult it can be to balance work, two kids, and be the responsible one for the marriage. Just try to not get too overwhelmed and pick one or two areas that you think you can begin to change. Baby steps!!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I just spoke to H. I called him and told him I felt very bad about where we left things last night and that I felt bad I wasn't nicer this morning. He said nothing. I said 'Is now a bad time or do you just not have anything to say?' He said 'There's just no answer, so I don't know what we're gonna do'. The gist of the conversation was that he's not giving anymore on this issue, S6's bedtime will remain as it is. I asked what about next time we disagree, are you going to use a heavy hand then as well? He said it depends on how strongly he feels about the issue. I don't see where that leaves much room for co-parenting.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Just try to not get too overwhelmed and pick one or two areas that you think you can begin to change
We were still in the time frame where we were supposed to be laying out and agreeing on our expectations for a 'new' relationship. I tentatively offered to give another year if we could come to some sort of agreement on how we envisioned a new relationship. Perhaps I'm being rash, but does it seem worth trying to give another year to a relationship in which H has all but said, if he feels strongly enough about an issue, his opinion will trump all others? It just seems like this is enough to call the whole thing off.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Yes, that is what she's trying to do....I think the issue is in how it's approached with her H.
See, with my H it's all in the approach I take. I can either instantly put him on the defensive by making it appear that we have two choices and his isn't the "right" one (which I think is how Heather's H feels). OR...I can literally say something like what I suggested to Heather, which validates what he's trying to do and includes what she feels is important too.
I KNOW if I had an issue similar to Heathers and said this to my H "I'd like to get his bedtime started early tonight.'" He'd (in his minds ear) hear "I don't like the way you are doing it, my way is better." Naturally that wouldn't be my intention, and my words didn't say that, but that's how his mind's filter would have interpereted it. It's an unspoken battle of wills.
So...when my lightbuld finally goes off and I recognize that my H interperets that I'm saying "your wrong" I've found that if I literally state things like "I agree it's important to teach our kids that they need to complete tasks....." and work in the importance of also getting the kids to bed earlier....she removes the "you're wrong" from the equation. She may even have to repeat it a few times to him (and that's where biting her tongue and practicing patience will come in.) Honestly, I have literally had to stop in mid conversation with my H...when he's trying to argue against something I never said and look at him and say "You do realize I agree with you right? I'm not saying you are wrong." This has honestly stopped him mid sentence with mouth agape....and a confused expression on his face. THEN he starts to really hear what I'm saying.
Heather, IMPO...needs to recognize when he's filtering her words and work to not fight against them, but use that knowledge that he's filtering her and learn to phrase things so she is careful to include his idea/task (validate him) and include her ideas/tasks as well. After some time goes by (sorry don't know how long) he will learn she's not always out to oppose him, but to work WITH him.
I've used this with my H consistently, our conversations are now so much easier. It's been a year, but my H now actually talks to me, listens to me...and for the most part hears what I say most of the time. Without assuming I'm out to prove him wrong. We work more as a team now than we ever did.
GEL
PS Heather, I agree....that bedtime is waaaay too late.
