Also, I agree with Nop and Blackfoot that you need to do the background work to prepare yourself for D and send a serious message. That you have not done so yet tells me you are scared and still hanging on. I’m pretty sure your wife senses the same. So in her mind she still has the upper hand, and because of that, all that I have suggested will not be successful.
I agree with you that invoking jealousy may be a cheeseless tunnel, though I don’t think it is completely cheeseless, but now may not be the right time to wage that battle. Jealousy may be better addressed after she has expressed some commitment to stay in the marriage. Right now she is threatening to leave the marriage, so jealousy isn’t going to help resolve that. Save it for later.
Just to clarify: I never suggested that HD invoke jealousy. I only meant what cobra went on to say, namely, that her jealousy is evidence that she still considers him attractive.
And possibly-- although this may be a leap-- that she cares what happens to the marriage.
Any action that HD takes is predicated on the fact that she cares what happens to the marriage. If she doesn't, then all of this is moot.
Edited to add:
There's nothign that HD can do to "make himself attractive" to her, i.e. chores, parenting, getting along. I'm saying he's ALREADY attractive to her, hence the jealousy.
Her coldness isn't caused by the fact that she doesn't think he's attractive. Her jealousy is evidence she DOES think he's attractive... at least that's my hypothesis.
OTOH maybe it's just a power/pride thing. I don't want this old toy, but you can't have it either?
Cobra and Blackfoot: I've already begun the nauseating MENTAL process of imagining a D. Having been there before, I know what I need to do, and can basically take care of most of the income-related changes (my salary direct deposit) in about three minutes on the computer. My living arrangements? Unlike my first marriage, I don't want to go through the hassle of finding/buying a new house. Instead, I plan, at least for the short term, to (gulp) move into my mom's house. I could also, possibly, move in with my brother, but the point is that I have given this some thought. No timetable yet.
And yes, Cobra, I'm ready for the discussion with her. Thanks for the help.
It is nauseating. I'm sorry that it is even part of the situation to imagine D. It honestly sounds like you think it might be inevitable. It just sucks and I wanted you to know that of all people here I understand how badly you want a second M to work. I think the work I am willing to do in my second M pales in comparison to what I did to save my first and that was a 10 year M with seven of it alternating between mild misery and pure hell. Hugs.
That being said - Mrs. HD has some responsibilities to this M too. Some of them are, in fact, related to affection and sex.
I can relate...not married, but with a bf who never initiates anymore. He has had some health related stuff, but nevertheless I was starting to think I didn't want it anymore either...until a few days ago. Met someone at a dinner who knocked my socks off...I drank a little too much and kissed him. He has my phone number now. At least I know now that I am not going to the LD side...LOL. Sad, but bf just puts NO effort into intimacy and thinks I am going to go along with it...not going to happen. I guess my point for HD is...the rest of your life is a long time to suppress your sexual side. It makes me feel unattractive and unwanted...and OLD. I just can't see giving into this, married or not. But with kids, very difficult. JMHO.
the tricky thing about where you are is the extreme fine line you have to walk. Im not talking about changing you Direct Deposit or having your own account or withdrawing cutting her off etc. Im talking about taking control. Of the budget. of yourself. of your time. of doing what you want. of being able to handle it and forcing her to notice it. and then give her opportunities to join you without being affected by rejection. When we seperated the first time I put x ON all (sorta) my accounts. I wasnt being supplicating by doing it though, in fact I was being quite.... dismissive. Initially it came off as being open and protective because of the situation, serious 180's from my prior fiscal dealings with her. Later during the second seperation it just a complete sneer.
She is being affected by your non verbal rejection. That is actually a positive, though her way of handling it is not. I think you should shine a bright light on HER reactions to your non verbal rejections, and point it out to her very matter of factly.
Its not just fiscally. How you do any action is more important then the action. People fail to understand this all the time. Those people say things like 'but I just did/said what he did' maybe verbally.. but no they didnt say the same thing, because it wasnt 'heard' the same way.
I know I am only supposed to pray for things that are not selfish, but as I sit here in the middle of Johnson County in Lenexa, with KU flags attached to every house, everyone wearing KU shirts, license plates on every BMW/Lexus/Hummer/SUV in the city, and TV (and 810 radio) full of KU Loving people, I am on my knees to beg of you for a KU loss tonight. Please let those dreadful KU Jayhawks go down in flames, push Chalmers, Wright and Rush into the NBA next year, but dont let Coach Self leave or be pushed out since we Wildcat Faithful would like him to stay at KU and never win the big one, as we know you have us destined to win the NCAA title with Huggy Bear before the beakers do.
In your name I ask you this little selfish favor!
AMEN
Sadly, it's not gonna happen...
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Hairdog, I haven't been able ( as yet) to go through your entire thread, but I wanted to stop by and encourage you ( and choc and others) to keep addressing the issues with W.
I hope that the idea of moving out is only a mental process. I think moving out would be a BIG mistake. What kind of message would that send?
uhmmm....that he's serious about changing the status quo and he's not going to take her crap anymore? Granted it should be a last resort but come on, HD is at the end of his rope. And MrsHD is NOT going to "get it" until something drastic happens. Plus, S does NOT always lead to D. Obviously.
