I don't see where that leaves much room for co-parenting.
Heather, did you say this to him? Sounds like perhaps you two might still benefit from some letter-writing, you two communicated more effectively that way. It's ok to use that as a tool for the short-term.
He said nothing. I said 'Is now a bad time or do you just not have anything to say?' He said 'There's just no answer, so I don't know what we're gonna do'.
His remark above does not imply ---TO ME--- what you got out of the coversation stated below.
The gist of the conversation was that he's not giving anymore on this issue
He said I dont know what we're going to do. using we is good. very good. he did not say deal with it or leave. he did not say, too bad, Im doing what I want.
Take his words at exact face value. Do not interpret. Just (trying) insight to him.
That means you have to be firm about YOUR boundary. How important is this too you? Tell him how important resolving this with both of your input is to you, calmly. Identify both of your desires and ask for solutions, while thinking of your own. Your both right.
let the teachers bring it too his attention, do not try to 'garner supportive advocates.' Let it come out on its own. Be a team, not adversaries, especially in front of others.
H flat out said he's not willing to give anymore on the issue, he's given and given and I've just taken and taken. He said it appears we've both chosen to put our foot down on this issue and he's simply not willing to give any more.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Just to explain to us outside observers - where it the impasse exactly? Is it truly impossible to begin the bedtime routine earlier starting tomorrow or next week with some planning and schedule changes? This is one case where I agree on both of your issues and think they are very important. What I don't understand, besides the possible logistical issue of ACTUALLY starting the routine earlier depending on dinner, etc., is WHY both of these issues cannot be addressed. To me it would be an impasse if H said I want him to have a 10:15 bedtime but he really doesn't SEEM to care about the bedtime per se but about his issue or if you believed that your son should learn to NOT complete tasks. I do not not think either of you believe those things. That is why I (and I assume others) keep asking more questions about the real issue at hand.
Whether your H has said this is finished or not is not really relevant. He may feel frustrated and be afraid of further failure on this issue. So it may be easier on his ego to just "not give anymore". But like I asked before, is it possible to deal with this issue without him giving at this moment? I would convey to him somehow that you do not want him to GIVE. What you want is to give him the room to complete tasks with S6 without staying up too late.
It occurs to me that both of you may be feeling this small issue is a larger magnification of the larger issue (and in some ways it is) but by seeing it that way it can also make it a much tougher task to address than if it was simply a combination two good lessons for S6 being accomplished at the same time.
OK NOW I have to get ready for my meeting!!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
The underlying issue for H is not really that he wants S6 to be able to complete his tasks, he sort of just used that as an example of what teaching responsibility was since I brought it up in that light.
From all I can gather from H, the underlying issue of S6's bedtime is the one-on-one time that S6 gets after D4 goes to bed. If it were up to me, D4 and S6 would go to bed at the same time, between 8:30-9pm. I've tried to address the issue of one-on-one time, but H won't go for it. I have my own opinions on what the real issue with the bedtime is for H, but it does no good to dwell on what I THINK the unspoken issues are.
Starting the bedtime routine earlier is all I've ever wanted. The routine can be as long as a 5 year old's list for Santa, I don't care. I just want him in bed ready to close his eyes by 9:30. H can't see where I'm compromising, he says I don't know how to compromise. He's convinced that all I want is to get my way and that I put in undercover, as 'what's best for S6'.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
You know this is just another level of control for your H, to give him whatever security he needs (I would like to hear your guess as to what you think his real issue is). That it concerns the kids make it feel to both of you that you are taking a stand for their good. But really, back off from this boulder in the middle of the road. Does it really need to be moved right now? How was your life affect by the bedtime you had when you were 6?
My W and I have had plenty of conflicts over the kids. Most of them just evaporate on their own because kids grow up. I do agree that it is important to teach proper habits, etc., but I’m not sure the marriage is to the point of handling such give and take right now. This seems to be a lot like the church issue.
I agree with Blackfoot that letting the teacher put forth some advice is a good way to go. But let your H take the calls, not you. If the teacher does call you, just tell her to call your H on this matter and give her his phone number. Let him be responsible for his decision and hear first hand how it affects S6.
Perhaps I'm being rash, but does it seem worth trying to give another year to a relationship in which H has all but said, if he feels strongly enough about an issue, his opinion will trump all others? It just seems like this is enough to call the whole thing off.
I am a little concerned that your first reaction is to assume the marriage is over. It seems H is jumping to the same conclusion too. This is going back into old patterns. Remember to hold onto yourself, allow yourself to live through the anxiety you are feeling, and see if he really leaves you. If he stays, then you might be making yourself anxious for no reason. This is just typical marriage stuff. No need for jumping to divorce. Don’t make him responsible for soothing your anxiety. He can’t handle it right now.
I think you should honestly address with your H what it is you are feeling that causes you to think like you did. Let him see your fears so he can feel some empathy toward you. Ask him why he feels the same way. That might open up the both of you to exploring other compromises that you can both live with.
H flat out said he's not willing to give anymore on the issue, he's given and given and I've just taken and taken. He said it appears we've both chosen to put our foot down on this issue and he's simply not willing to give any more.
Just as we’ve discussed female code language, I think this is code language for your H. You know that if push came to shove he would have a hard time supporting this comment. But he still feels it, likely because of his issues. What is another issue that he thinks he has given in on? Is it something you can swap out for some movement on the bedtime issue? He is not talking about a one-off incident. He sees a pattern somewhere, so I think you should try to see what that pattern is. Don’t try to argue whether it is valid or not (it probably isn’t), but as GEL says, agree with him on it.
GEL knows what she is talking about. IMO, she uses that adult attachment approach to put herself on the same side as her H. That is why she can demobilize his defenses before he can even get them up. It is a smart strategy. It is also in line with Dr. Laura.
Another thing I saw you mention is that your H takes naps in the afternoon? What is that all about? Not saying you should do this, but if it were me, I would be doing something to prevent your H from taking naps. This may be his preferred lifestyle, but he does need to learn to compromise in a marriage, and eliminating naps so he can go to bed earlier sounds reasonable. Is there some way you can fill up his time when he is napping?
In fact, if it were me, I would be questioning his whole routine as a way to sabotage the relationship by shifting schedules in his favor and to your detriment, but don’t you say that now. In negotiation, everything is fair game to be place on the bargaining table. Maybe that’s another battle for later.
Quote: ---------------------------------------------------------- So where does that leave me? Where is this new R that I wanted? H managed to be nice to me for about a week before he used the L appt as an excuse to pull away again, all the while blaming me for my lack of commitment. ----------------------------------------------------------
So, has an agreement to work on a new relationship been achieved? Have you talked to husband about what level of commitment you needed in order to continue in the marriage? What have you negotiated with him so far?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
FWIW - you are right on the bedtime argument but being right won't help. Children at the age of six still need a bedtime closer to 8/8:30. Some may need to go to bed as early as 7:30. Any teacher, psychologist, pediatrician would agree. The only exceptions would be a child who was homeschooled and was allowed to wake up later so they could get an appropriate number of hours of sleep.
I think your best bet would be for BOTH of you to schedule an appointment with the teacher to discuss the behavior stuff. Believe me she will recommend sufficient sleep and she may offer some other insights too. That way it isn't just you. You should say very little other than "Mmmmmhmmm. What do you think, Mr. H?" "What other suggestions do you have Mrs. Jones?"
I also think that your H uses keeping the children up late as an excuse to distance himself from you. I think he has done it for a long time. It is handy because it sets him up as the "cool" parent thereby guaranteeing that he will be preferred by the kids AND keeping your alone time together to a bare minimum. That being the case, if you get to a point where you can actually discuss this subject with some spirit of cooperation you can point out the need for some alone time if you are to try to work on this M.
First, he has to agree to work on the M. Good luck.
FWIW this..."IMO, she uses that adult attachment approach to put herself on the same side as her H." is dead on as to why I take this approach with my H.
It REALLY works with him too. It doesn't work instantly, it taks repetition and consistency but eventually he broke the habit of immediately reacting to situations defensively. He had become conditioned to believe that if someone didn't listen to him, or take his advice/suggestions...that they thought he was stupid, not worth listening to, that he was WRONG. Verbally validating him has been key in our communication.
