Hi guys, ltns. Sorry to see most of you still here though.
I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but I reckon this is a MUST read for any couple.
I read this book years ago (recommended by a counsellor)but never really 'got' it until now. I read it the other day again and what John Gray says in this book is exactly what has happened in our relationship. For those of you who have not read it, see if this sounds familiar in your situations (Sorry in advance for the looong post).
"The four R's:
Resistance - In any normal human relationship there will be certain levels of resistance beween two people. Resistance occurs when you notice yourself starting to resist something another person is saying, doing, or feeling. You start criticising them in your mind, and you may notice yourself pulling away a little bit...The way most people handle Resistance is to ignore it and pretend it's not there...If you don't tell the truth about your resistance and resolve it with your partner, those little resistances build up and turn into the second R, Resentment.
Resentment - Resentment is a much more active level of resistance. It is intense dislike and blame of the other person for what they are doing. The other person really starts to annoy you. You may find yourself getting angry over small things, blowing them out of proportion...Resentment is usually accompanied by and internal experience of anger and tension. You are separating from your partner emotionally. Anger, frustration, annoyance, sharpness and hate are all symptoms of stage two, Resentment. If you don't tell the truth about your resentment and resolve it with your partner, it builds up and turns into the third R, Rejection.
Rejection - Rejection occurs when so much resistance and resentment has built up that it becomes impossible for you to stay emotionally connected to the other person, and you pull away. You are turned off emotionally and sexually. You may just say 'I don't want to discuss this anymore'. You may leave the room, you might storm out of the house, or you might just shut down and refuse to acknowledge the other person or pay attention to them. The signs of rejection are: not wanting to be with your partner; always polarizing with whatever point of view they take; fantasizing about other people or having affairs. Rejection is the natural consequence of carrying around stored-up resentment. You cannot be near or relate to your partner without feeling all of your accumulated tension and resentment, so you just push them away in order to get some relief. During this third stage your sex life will deteriorate tremendously if it hasn't already. you may find yourself feeling you still love your partner, but you are no longer attracted to them, you are no longer 'in love'. You may feel repelled or disgusted at the thought of sex, or simply feel you just have no interest in sex anymore. If you believe in divorce, you will probably decide to split up in this third stage...If you don't tell the truth about your feelings of Rejection and resolve them with your partner, your Rejection builds up and turns into the next level of separtation, Repression.
Repression - Repression is the most dangerous of the four R's. It occurs when you are so tired of resisting, resenting and rejecting that you successfully repress all of your negative emotions to 'keep the peace'...Repression is a state of emotional numbness. You numb yourself to your feelings in order to be comfortable. The numbness spills over into the rest of your life. You lose your enthusiasm and aliveness. Life may become predictable and boring - it isn't painful, but it isn't joyful either. You may feel physically tired much of the time...Every time you suppress the complete truth and automatically repress your feelings, your ablility to love decreases."
Taken from 'What You Feel You Can Heal' by John Gray.
I think this book is possibly more relevant than The SSM to be honest, for me anyway. I have totally repressed my feelings and now I just don't care. I have told my H that I want to separate and even though he is devastated, I'm not really that upset. I was relieved in a way. If we had learned to manage our feelings and arguments in a healthy way, we would never be in this position. Bugger.
I think a lot of these R's are how my H has felt towards me throughout our marriage and vice versa except that the love never went away completely. As in most relationships one person does something that upsets the other and yes it does cause resentment but maybe H or W does something nice and that somehow cancells out the negative. It is when there is no feeling left and one or other really doesn't care at all the repression stage that as you say it becomes easier to walk away. My friend left her H of32 yrs with a small bag of clothes after many years of unresolved issues. Her h wanted to do councelling but my friend said it was too late all feelings for him were gone. Unfortunately it turned out later she had gone to be with his best friend and her friends H. She had been listening to her friends anguish at her H withdrawing from her for months suspecting another woman not realising the personshe'd been friends with for 28 yrs WAS the OW. In my book what my F did was ubforgiveable and after 30 yrs we are no longer friends.
I am sorry you feel D is the only option for you I can see exactly your points as regards the R problems within M and have been suffering from them too. I'm hopeful that my H still loves me enough to keep trying and will be encouraging him to talk through his resentments towards me and trying to let go my resentments towards him. I think when both partners realise it is not all one person or the others fault and there are faults on both sides that there is hope. When one is blaming the other while not seeing what they have both contributed to the problems within the M it stands less chance of success.
Why do so many second and even third marriages fail? Probably because people change the person but not the behaviour that caused the breakdown in the first place!!
John Gray is pretty old school by today’s standards. There has been a lot of newer work since him that addresses ways to overcome the four Rs. The core of the problem is fear and insecurity – in the BOTH of you. The four Rs are only SYMPTOMS, they are all defense mechanisms. They are actually irrelevant, but they are the MAIN things couples focus on when under stress.
The answer is to recognize the underlying dynamic and how it plays out in your marriage, see what you each do to self protect and therefore exacerbate the situation, and find a way to soothe yourself and each other. D is not the right answer. It is only an escape. “What you feel you can heal” is only the first step part of the process.
Old school it may be, but it describes exactly what has gone on in our relationship and has given me an understanding of how we got to be in a SSM.
My H has cited that communication has been a problem for years. I communicate, I don't get listened to, I get sick of repeating myself, I withdraw from communicating with him and we end up fighting about not communicating. After 5 years of this cycle, I've had enough and I don't really feel any love for him, except for that as a friend. Maybe not even that. He doesn't see any problem with himself and thinks he is a wonderful communicator. His definition of communication obviously has nothing to do with listening and actually hearing what the other person is saying.
If the love isn't there anymore, is there any point in trying to rebuild the marriage?
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
Quote: -------------------------------------------- If the love isn't there anymore, is there any point in trying to rebuild the marriage? --------------------------------------------
Love is a choice, RJ. The question is; do you want to aggressively pursue repairing the relationship, even if that means a one-sided approach?
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
H is trying to sweep me off my feet (again), bringing me a flower to work, a bunch when I got home from work and a nice candle lit dinner when I got home from volleyball. It was very sweet, but to be honest it made me so uncomfortable. I have laid out my cards very clearly for him but he wants to 'win me back'. At the moment I would rather he just left me alone to sort out some things. I don't know what I want. There are fleeting moments where I think, 'I suppose we could try again', but they are quickly replaced by the little voice in my head that says, 'what's going to change, how will you make it change?'. Once I have worked that out I'm going to have to figure out how to get it.
Think I need a holiday...
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
Since you said that one of your major complaints is communication and feeling like you’ve been heard, perhaps when he is pursuing you he is in more of a mind to hear you. Trying to talk to him after he feels he has you does not seem to have worked. He has no incentive to talk to you at that point.
I assume you shutting down to him is a passive aggressive way to get his attention, right? So while you have it, talking seems a better way to get your points across than getting angry and hoping he will read your mind. If you are shutting down, then I see this as a lack of being able to set proper boundaries on your end. Just because he doesn’t agree with what you are saying doesn’t mean you should shut down. He should acknowledge your complaints, but he does not have to agree with them, and unless you are willing to stand up for yourself to press your issues, he has absolutely no reason to resolve your complaints either.
Those four Rs may accurately describe your marriage, but what are you going to do to fix it? I’m curious to hear what Nop has in mind.
He should acknowledge your complaints, but he does not have to agree with them, and unless you are willing to stand up for yourself to press your issues, he has absolutely no reason to resolve your complaints either.
That's one of the biggest problems. He does acknowledge and for the most part, agrees with my complaints. The trouble is that he says he forgets to do anything about them - that I need to keep reminding him. It's just beyond ridiculous. For example - he supposed to be rebuilding the front deck we demolished on New Year's Eve. So far he has got the footings in. He hasn't been working and the weather has been fairly good. We discussed before we even started the job that it was to be done straight away (not like the other jobs started and taken years to complete), as it is the entry to our house and needs to be done. He wholeheartedly agreed and was very keen to get it done. So why is it still not done? Because I didn't remind him apparently. This I don't get because we have to make an extra 30 metre trip around the yard now to get into the house.
Another example is when he said to me a few months ago his boss would be having time in February off so if I could get extra work then, I should. This I did. Told him about it when I organised it, wrote it on the calendar, told him I wrote it on the calendar, put a roster on the fridge, told him I put the roster on the fridge, talked about work during the week and he gets up Monday morning and says, 'aren't you working today?'. Argh.
This is what life is like all the time. I'm sick to death of it. I feel like I am living with an dementia patient. Maybe all that pot he smoked in his youth killed his brain...
Last edited by RJ; 02/23/0704:58 AM.
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
I said: ------------------------------------------------ The question is; do you want to aggressively pursue repairing the relationship, even if that means a one-sided approach? ------------------------------------------------
You didn't answer me. How about some direct communication with me?
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
RJ- Your husband sounds a bit like me with tasks and such. I used to focus on the other person's "need" to remind me. I ended up doing some extensive testing and found out that I have ADD. I take pills for it, which helps, but it is still an effort to remember those chores that need to be done (at work and at home). I got in the habit of using certain to-do lists, calendars, automatic reminders, etc., in order to constantly remind me of things that need to be remembered and accomplished. Things still fall through the cracks from time to time, but it's a huge improvement over the way things used to be.
One of the biggest improvements came in my ability to take responsibility for my own actions. It sounds like your H might need some help in that department.
As for the deck, why not get someone else lined up to complete it and maybe even start working on it. Perhaps that's the kick in the pants he'll need to do the job. It's your house, too.
