Hiya, HD. I haven't been posting much lately, but I follow your sitch religiously (well, not like there's HOLY WATER involved or anything, just -- oh, nvm).
You said:
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"Peaceful" is almost an understatement. She's been positively friendly lately. Is it a result of last week's IWTMLWYOAW? Or is it just where we are right now?
It may be that your wife is very much like my wife, in that she is happiest when she is simultaneously both WANTED and FOUND TO BE SEX-Y, but isn't at the moment required to have any ACTUAL SEX with you.
My wife is happiest when she knows I want her, but doesn't have to deal with sex.
Could it be that this is the place where your wife is at the moment? She thinking "Hmmm, HD still finds me attractive, and yet he's backed off that silly 'once-a-week' demand of his and seems content again, and isn't this a great episode of 'Brothers and Sisters'?"
LOL. You remind me of my S18. He taught himself Esperanto when he was 12 and he edits articles on Wikipedia in his spare time. He was very proud of the fact that he edited one of the articles deemed most important and his edits stuck. He is appalled by my writing style.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
It may be that your wife is very much like my wife, in that she is happiest when she is simultaneously both WANTED and FOUND TO BE SEX-Y, but isn't at the moment required to have any ACTUAL SEX with you.
she is happiest when she is simultaneously both WANTED and FOUND TO BE SEX-Y, but isn't at the moment required to have any ACTUAL SEX with you.
Hey, choc! Yeah, there is some of that going on here. One of the things she said to me the first night I said the "I want...", was, "you know, I was feeling so good about us, and yes, even felt like making love, when you lied to me about driving with DD5 over to pick up your kids at ex's house..."
This is a strategy of hers: initiate sex in a way where it is impossible to actually have sex. The above statement fits with this by initiating sex in the past. Bear with me. The essence of what she said was, "I was ready, I was horny, I wanted you to ML with me, but, (not, "you did xyz") that was this moment minus x." In other words, imagine if Renee Zellweger had said to Tom Cruise, "You had me at 'hello'", and Tom had come toward her, and she said, "I mean, when you said 'hello' a week ago. Too much has happened in the interim, and therefore, you missed the opportunity."
The other way is to initiate it in a time/place where it is impossible to complete, such as, after hearing DD5 stir in her bedroom across the hall on Saturday morning. MsHdog does this sort of thing less often than the "time" limitation, above.
Yes, she does want to be loved, wanted, thought sexy, etc., at least to the point where anything is required of her in response.
It used to be quite bothersome, until I got to the point where I basically didn't believe her about these "safe" types of pronouncements.
Hairdog, this would correspond to my wife's habit (I'm not even sure she knows she is doing this) of kissing me much more passionately GOODBYE, in the morning, than she EVER would at night, where -- GASP! -- god forbid I might actually DO something about it. Her most affectionate moments, even of just nice physical, non-sexual touch, are always during the day and with others around.
Even though I like to read and do read a lot, sometimes I'd rather have someone explain something to me than to take the more impersonal route of looking for myself. Lots of times I'd give my husband an article in the paper and ask him to read it and then tell me what it says. Not because I was too lazy to read it, but because it was more fun having the info filtered through another person. It was more interactive or interesting or something. I also love it when people read out loud to me. I always asked him (and ask my BF, too) to read cartoons and greeting cards out loud to me. Even the cards I give them.
Edited to add: Great entry in wikipedia, hairdog. Begging the Question Take a look, Burg. It even addresses the modern somewhat incorrect use of that term.
Hairdog, this would correspond to my wife's habit (I'm not even sure she knows she is doing this) of kissing me much more passionately GOODBYE, in the morning, than she EVER would at night, where -- GASP! -- god forbid I might actually DO something about it. Her most affectionate moments, even of just nice physical, non-sexual touch, are always during the day and with others around.
Ditto that.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Why don't you just tell her? Then ask her why that is and what kind of message she is trying to send you? If you don't confront her on it, then don't complain about it.
[b]This is a strategy of hers: initiate sex in a way where it is impossible to actually have sex.[b]
You know this is a major deflection and she is doing it because she is facing the Schnarchian two-choice dilemma. But rather than confront that dilemma she turns the tables on you and therefore avoids having to confront the choice entirely. This is where you REALLY need to hold your ground. Lil’s advice to stay on-message, and keep the message short and concise is to keep this dilemma in front of her. So far you can see that doing so actually seems to make her be happy. I am not really surprised about that.
I see her reaction as consistent with my wife in that she wants to push you away as hard as she can to see if you still come back. It’s like she is trying to convince herself that you won’t leave her. Your statement was just the confrontational, strong type of “coming back” to her that gives her some confidence that you might really mean what you say. So she is happy.
This tactic of hers is actually more than a deflection and it might behoove you to respond to it in that way. It is really a couched attack on you. Schnarch talks about this very scenario, and I came across it in counseling once with W. My notes from that session are:
W still had trouble agreeing to commit to the marriage. I then got mad and told her she was still avoiding, deflecting, even lying and not accepting her responsibility. She acted surprised and asked what it was she was doing. I told her that she was again avoiding her issues and her fear, being a chicken shit and not wanting to face her own decision, instead throwing it back on me. I told her committing to the marriage meant facing her fears on intimacy and vulnerability. Her other choice was to avoid this option and decide to leave the marriage, but she was too chicken to make that decision. So she tries to deflect the issues back onto me as my fault in order to avoid her choice. I told her that she complains that the issues always come back to her, but that is because she will not make a decision.
You might think about the following and how you can bring it up sometime in the future, because I think this may be a hurdle you have no choice but to cross, in one way or another.
Your wife plays the same game as what my wife does. Your W tries to be the strong conqueror of injustice against women, takes pride in her aggression through brutal honesty (say, this is why you hate my brutal honesty, isn’t it?), but in reality, she is a total hypocrite. Yes, I think you need to call her this, and throw it at her out of left field so she has no idea what you are talking about.
I think your wife is avoiding her choice and diverting the issue back onto you, making you out to be the bad guy. This is actually an insult to you and brings into question your honesty and intentions. You have every right to get thoroughly PO’d at this assertion, and you should. It is simply not true. She is falsely accusing you to avoid confronting her own issues (making her a chicken shit), she is not being brutally honest (making her a liar) because she chooses to manipulate the issue back onto you to avoid her fears, and instead projects her issue back onto you (making her less than ethical).
Tell her (in your own way, more diplomatically that what I am stating) that you are not going to put up with this behavior of her twisting the story around to make you out to be the bad guy. Tell her the reason she always feels under the microscope, and that you are pressuring her is because she is too chicken to make a decision one way or the other. If should would do so, the ball would be back in your court and the pressure off her. If she makes no decision, then the ball will stay in her court. It is her choice and you will not hear any more of her trying to push it back onto you.
Just throw this all out there, but before she can get her balance and counter attack. Then without giving her a chance to reply, quickly tell her you are not mad at her, that you love her but you want her to stop. You know the choice is scary but you are there to support her and she has nothing to fear, blah, blah, blah. Give her the security and commitment that she really wants from you and let her stew on getting comfortable with that.
Tell me one more thing… what is it in your wife’s past that makes her this way? I have asked several times but you have not answered. What went on in her FOO? Can I find it in an old thread somewhere?
