I'm not sensitive at all so don't worry even if you completely disagree with me about everything I write! I won't feel hurt at all (and even if I was hurt that's my own issue to deal with:)). In fact posting at all is hard for me because I don't want to give "bad" advice and I don't have the conviction that I'm right about anything. (Has anyone else read Richard Bach's Illusions? "Everything above may be wrong") The only reason I keep posting is because I allow others to have enough sense to read them for what they are worth and maybe they will at least see something interesting or thought provoking in them even if they don't exactly agree with them.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
How do you know your advice is bad? And even if it were, so what? This is a learning forum. You are not posting as a licensed counselor. Good advice to one may be bad advice to another. Say what you think, without fear of retribution from the board (you get used to it after a while, I should know!) and learn to see other angles from the other posters. Others may not have thought of something might see, so all comments are good.
I wholeheartedly disagree that a spouse of a potential cheater should ignore the facts. Hiding your head in the sand is irresponsible.
The simple fact is that if your spouse or partner is engaging in sex with someone else, and has sex with you also, puts your life at risk.
I am personally appalled that people are instructed to engage in practices that could potentially threaten their life.
Secrets kill marriages. You have a right; in fact a responsibility, to know the truth.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I disagree that not snooping equals hiding your head in the sand.
I agree that ignoring FACTS is not something that anyone should do. FACTS are the most important thing is these situations. The problem to me is that none of the facts that LG has to date show any indication of any type of affair - emotional or physical.
I apologize if it appeared my comments were interpreted as "instructing" LG to engage in a practice that could potentially threaten his life. I don't mean that AT ALL and appreciate the chance to clarify. First as long as there isn't any sex going on between Marc and his spouse, there isn't any danger. Second, and most importantly, my comments were not supposed to be seen as any type of instruction. They were merely comments about how I've handled my situation and the reasoning for it. In no way should anything I ever write be seen as any type of instruction or absolute. In fact the best way I can imagine someone using what I write is to focus on the end result first and then look and see if my actions and suggested actions would achieve the result in their situation and marriage.
Again as for snooping, I go back to my thoughts years ago when I snooped to find things to show my boyfriend was cheating on me. I couldn't find the proof no matter how much snooping I did although I felt certain he was. Well it turned out I finally found out through a friend much later that he indeed did cheat on me. So what is my point? That snooping didn't help that situation. What I should have done in hindsight was trust my instinct and break up with him with or without proof. And I didn't even owe him the "justification" of why. And what does this have to do with LG? Maybe, if he feels that certain that something is going on, he jcould preemptively tell his wife that he isn't comfortable with her behavior and that he is done with the marriage as it is? IMHO, nothing at all would be wrong with that as long as that is EXACTLY how HE feels and what HE wants.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I am sorry that I really don't have time to debate you.
I propose that LG snoop because his wife is displaying textbook affair behaviors. Once he knows for sure, there is no need for him to continue snooping.
I hope I haven't offended you. I am a really "to the point guy", and your feelings are obviously still very tender.
I wish you all the best. -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
By the way the reasons for not snooping. 1) waste of time and energy 2) then you react to her rather than being the person she reacts to 3) even when you find something you usually have to interpret which you can easily do incorrectly 4) It just makes you feel weak, needy and insecure.
I am a reformed snooper and I can tell you personally my self esteem, feeling of strength and mood was so much better when I gave it up cold turkey
What is with you no snooping guys. Tell the FBI not to wire tap will ya.
SNOOP but don't read anymore in to the "evidence" than is really there.
Get the Keylogger right now.
What your W is doing or not doing is about her actions. Not snooping is like not going to the doctor when you have a medical question about something that is bothering you.
The list is from the "Good Advice" thread on the "Wide advice from DBers" and is a synopsis of Michele Weiner-Davis' advice from her DB book. Can't take credit for Michele's advice:)
And for me the more fitting analogies would be that "not snooping" would be like "not looking on the internet and talking to the gal behind the desk at the local health food store" and "not asking your spouse directly" would be like "not going to the doctor".
Please carefully note that I have NEVER said anything about not asking LG's spouse directly if there was an affair going on.
I just have no experience with that issue so I haven't spoken about it. I happen to be one of the unlucky one's that didn't have any clue that an affair was going on along with no symptoms so I never even had a chance to think about asking directly. The dumb thing is that snooping was such a part of my psyche that I did snoop even though I wasn't snooping about an affair. i was snooping for information about my spouse. So the snooping didn't help expose the affair AND it made me much weaker due to my own issues.
And again I understand that this is a very old issue of mine and others may not have the same issue I did. My problem with snooping is that I couldn't stop because the feelings that caused me to snoop in the first place didn't stop when I didn't see anything in his wallet, on his cell phone, in his truck glove compartment, and so on and so forth. I ended up feeling like I was somewhat crazy which only perpetuated my feelings of insecurity which made me feel like my feelings were my fault instead of realizing that my boyfriends and later spouse were the ones not treating me well regardless of whether there was an affair or not. So to summarize, I snooped from an insecure vantage point and snooping only made me feel weaker and weaker.
If this situation is not similar to people here, just ignore my post and do what works for you. I guess I didn't realize that I was coming across so "instructively" and decisively because I intended to only write my own personal experience and advice.
I've thought that I've been annoyingly clear that all of my comments are merely my point of view which may or may not be applicable to certain circumstances.
I keep intending to just shut up because I think it's painfully obvious that I am not clear enough when I post.
And Cobra, it's not that I'm being sensitive because my issue is NOT that people disagree with me. In fact I appreciate having people challenge me. In fact, that is a way to grow - by questioning and reevaluating how you look at life.
The problem is that I don't feel that my comments are read in the context I've intended. And because it consistently happens with many people and not just any one person, I believe I have to see myself as the one not writing clearly and not that it is other's interpretations. Not that I'm beating myself up or anything, I just mean that in this case with these topics and this group of people, I just seem to not speak the "correct" language. I just feel that there is no point to insert my posts where they are just "wasting" space.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
The problem is that I don't feel that my comments are read in the context I've intended. And because it consistently happens with many people and not just any one person, I believe I have to see myself as the one not writing clearly and not that it is other's interpretations. Not that I'm beating myself up or anything, I just mean that in this case with these topics and this group of people, I just seem to not speak the "correct" language. I just feel that there is no point to insert my posts where they are just "wasting" space.
Gren, don't just cut back on the soy-- stop all soy products. They are bad for you in LOTS of ways. If you google on "soy" and "danger" you will find many articles, but here are three:
Fearless, your comments are very clear. It's just that you encountered NOP and cobra, two of the most "to the point" posters here.
It's an open forum, and all pov's are welcome, yours most definitely included. No need to attach too many disclaimers. Your contexts are perfectly clear and easy to follow.
One of the reasons I asked LG to post here even though his story was already on the newcomer's board is that the SSM forum is IMHO a unique mix of literate, smart, well-read, kind, loving people. I don't read any other forums, so maybe some of them are like this one. Although some people have wandered over here after having heard that you can really get some good stuff here even if SSM isn't your primary problem. You are certainly a welcome addition to the crew.
