Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Muddle's Waters V

Great post Muddle and I feel your pain. I can neither say nor do anything right at this point and I did do everything wrong yesterday. The blame is 100% on me from her and I see my part. I try to change my part and me and then end up reverting back to the "old" me when my anger gets the best of me. I wish you only the best!

Yes, I too, Muddle, can look at most interactions with my W and see how I could have done or said it differently. But, how much dif would it have made? You're only human and you respond as such. There is no perfection in this world and it is unreasonable for us to expect ourselves to be. It's tough living in the no-win world you are in right now. I guess you just accept that's where you're at and carry on... or dump the bitch!!! I honestly can't fathom how you are still handling this the way you are. Hats off to you, Muddle!

BI, thanks for your input, as always. Hearing you spit back at me what I wrote makes it easier to see something I didn't quite see this way before:

It seems that if my self esteem were based on what this woman thought of me, I would be nothing. Yet, that's sort of what it seems like she wants. If she makes me nothing, than at least she's better than that - or equal to it. She said something to me a week or two ago that I liked pushing her down so I could feel better. Untrue, of course, because I would like nothing more than for her to be my equal in every capacity, but I guess this is more projection. I think she has a very good reason to be angry at me, and that is that I won't be in a relationship with her as an equal because I won't bring myself down to her level. She wants me to play in the mud with her, but we belong in a much better place. She won't work to be there. She thinks she deserves it, but she won't face herself and actually work at it. I still do all I can to treat her as my equal and I do view her as such - it's difficult to interact like that is true when she is so defensive and this percieved inequity is always at the forefront of our interactions (from her side). I guess this is the trouble with seeing your partner as you would like them to be (call it potential, if you will) rather than as they truly are in that moment.

It's a bit dangerous to say this (because nothing can ever really be boiled down to one root cause), but I do feel that so much of the cause of our issues as a couple come from how my W feels about herself - her lack of self esteem. I think this generates interactions that we both have a part in that tend to be unhealthy (I haven't learned to interact with her on these issues in a way that doesn't divert attention away from the negativity and onto the real positivity that would help her with her self esteem - but she doesn't really want to get better here, she just wants her immediate need satisfied), but without the ability and willingness to each look at ourselves, not much progress can be made. I think once she finds herself in a situation where she is forced to look at herself honestly (that day may never come) or is otherwise motivated to do so (from within), she will continue to use me as a scapegoat to vent all of her self-loathing onto and maintain this internal system she has going.

Muddle;

How long has she been with this therapist? Do you feel
he/she is helping? Can anger management be worked into
her sessions?

She's been going for about a year now. I'm not sure I see much improvement, but then again, I'm not really in a position to judge. She seems to take a really conservative approach to her social anxiety - telling her not to try "too much" at once, which to me seems like she's enabling my W to not do anything she doesn't feel like doing, and step out of her comfort zone only when what she wants can only be had this way. I also get the sense that she just listens and validates her immediate feelings and has little to no regard for the long term consequences of her actions. But again, I'm not really one to judge. And since my W doesn't talk to me any more, it's even more difficult to formulate an opinion.

I'm not sure how I could go about suggesting something like that. My W is so defensive, that the suggestion she has something wrong with her that might be useful working on with her therapist would not go over too well from me. I can only hope that she has told her therapist about the incidents (I have no doubt they've been spun) and that the therapist draws her own conclusions and comes to this herself.

Thanks for checking in.

I can empathize, Muddle. At least my W is now reading books on depression and mood. But, if her behaviour gets to be too much for me and the kids then I have to say something, regardless. I can't bring up my W's "failures" (as she would see them) or I get "I don't need a Counsellor, thank you!" and that's just when I ask "what's going on?". So, I'm with you on this one, Muddle! One day at a time, right?

Thanks for your empathy, WI. It's a tough place to be in. I read something the other day talking about how the dynamic of a relationship often leads to depression in on spouse. This is tricky in my situation because W has been depressed much of her life - but I must be contributing to it in some very real ways (as opposed to everything she blames me for). I am doing my best to see my part in this, and I know I have done a lot to take much off her plate as far as family responsibilities go. This might be a double edged sword though that will end up making her feel like she can't carry her own weight. I guess this is something I need to address in counseling.

It's funny - she has been going to this therapist, and this to her means that she's the one who's working on her issues. I'm quite sure that she could be telling the therapist what she wants her to hear and not actually being honest enough about her issues to really address them. On the other hand, I have no idea what they talk about, and she could be really working out deep problems. What I see as her problems could very well be our relationship problems in that the only present in her in the context of our relationship (I don't really think this is true, though).

One day at a time, one moment at a time.

I too have spent a great deal of time trying to keep things off my W's plate. yes, she resents it. She once said " I feel like I'm not a member of the family, all I do is bring home money and yell at the kids" I did offer to give her more responsibility and she said "I don't really want to do these things, I'm just talking about feelings here". I felt I was doing something loving by taking on so much but somehow it made her feel alienated. So I understand your bewilderment at what part you have played in her depression. I wonder too, am I contributing to it or keeping her from going off the deep end and in turn getting blamed by her for issues she knows are hers but can't face. Who really knows. I guess we just accept where we are and carry on.

Well, in the end it comes down to them actually doing the work. My W resents what she does do, but also resents what I do because I look like "the good one" and I actually enjoy doing for my family. So, I think the only solution is to clearly define who does what and leave hers to her. End of story. The trouble is that she won't sit down and define anything, or talk about anything for that matter. I can't make her, and anytime I try and bring up talking she immediately comes up with a grievance to complain about to avoid setting a date/time to talk. I can accept that I'm not persistant enough - but at some point, she's to blame for avoiding doing what she should.

Muddle, did we marry the same woman? Is this legal! My W complained because all her co-workers would always say to her "what a wonderful H you have, look at all the things he does for you!" Poor W! All the things I was doing were taking away recognition for what she felt she was doing, working tirelessly, going to school, family etc. I also tried to get us to sit down and look at finances cuz I, supposedly, control all the finances (only because she can't be bothered doing it). I wrote out a budget, gave her a copy, asked for a time to meet (twice) and that was the last I heard of it! I guess we just have to let go of trying to make sense of it all. What is is! And yes, unless our S's are willing to do some work on themselves there is no room for a real M in their lives. Sad but true. It takes two to Tango (that's Ballroom Dance talk ).