Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Mojo is 42

Hi LFL


Mojo

Your flailing.
Why do you take to heart all the stuff your H says?
When I am working on things, I grumble and curse and bitch when things arent flowing smoothly too, whether its because I misplaced my hammer, or the bolt wont line up with the hole, or at the software programmer who clog up the clients on the domain with spyware, or because I miscalculated my routing tables.

It would really tick me off, if my woman said 'just dont do it then.' What? quit because of adversity? what kind of support is that?

Your empathic abilities keep you in a tizzy. Get a grip on em.

Did your H leave?
Did he quit his job?
So why are you still focused on that stuff?
Why are you worried about what 'could' possible happen.
What happened the last time your H quit his job?
Did your family make it thru?

When he talks about quitting have you ever tried agreeing with him that his job is crappy, you understand if he wants to quit, and that you trust him to do whats best for your family?

Ive been ruminating again, (maybe I am the cow. )

You compared the R to a farmer and cow with a fence.

Im going to compare women (the R monitor) to a smoke alarm.

I was going to use oxygen monitors on a rebreather, because I have three in case one goes dead, and they are programmable(smarter), but it would get too complicated.

now we know that the smoke alarm is very important. but the smoke alarm squaks at any percieved threat. It doesnt matter if its a match, a cigar, dinner burning on the stove, or a real fire. Some people know how to check for real danger, hit the button when it squaks about a match and quiet it down. (good leader) Some people run around in a panic (or out the door) every time it squaks. (placater/supplicator/no boundaries), untill the battery goes dead, and the house burns down, and some get tired of the squaking and pull the battery on it because it squaks everytime there is a cigar, and the house burns down. (egotistical knowitalls/hardheaded a$$monkeys).

Moral.
Since your the fire alarm. Save your battery. Know when to squak, and dont worry about what you cant control.
I know at the beginning of this I was asking you to show more masculing energy, but figure out which issues are serious, and squak appropiately about those.
I see that your H is leaving you in a leadership void right now, but there is nothing 'wrong' with your R right now.

Maybe thats whats wrong with your R?

If you want to be radically honest ask him What he wants to accomplish in the next few months or years. If he doesnt know, reply 'huh. that must suck.' Its not your job to fix it. Its your job to control your perspective.

I agree with karen that that was a crappy thing to say.

But crappy or not, that is pretty much how you two got together, isn't it?

Isn't HE just a river that you fell into as well?


Some couples do just fall in with each other but at some point they commit, heart and soul. It appears your H never did... did you?

Good to hear from you, LFL. This is kind of a congenial group, isn't it? We'd probably be just as good as talking about other stuff, too, it just so happens that this is a relationship board... and we have plenty of topics under that heading.

That's probably why I was feeling like I should leave. I know it's not a healthy feeling but I don't know how to lose it. Though actually, I'm feeling a lot better now (LOL-you can read that both ways). I had a really weird weekend with my H which gave me some insight into what's going on with me.



Good advice.

Duh. However, please remember that I do use this BB as my personal therapy journal/ venting arena. In real life all that "flailing" that I exhibited on the BB just looked like me being somewhat distracted as I went about my daily routine.



Don't misunderstand me. I think it's perfectly normal to swear at the hammer or swear at the gods when my H misplaces the hammer that kind of behavior doesn't bother me. I just don't want him swearing at me.

I think the main reason I've been flailing lately is things have just gotten weird in my relationship. We're both behaving differently than usual for us and it's anxiety provoking to not be in the comfort zone or even the same old familiar dysfunctional rut. For instance, my H who used to have an issue with my weight was encouraging me to eat MORE pizza this weekend even though by all objective standards I could still stand to lose a few pounds. Surprisingly (or not to you I'm sure), I don't find this kind of placating behavior all that comforting. OTOH it's not like he's completely morphed into Mr.Placating he keeps bouncing back and forth between that and his old bullying behavior and it's, obviously, making me kind of nuts. For instance, he volunteered (I had not asked at all or even indicated that I needed assistance)to haul some stuff around for me but he said very crankily while he was doing it "I can't be your fun guy so I guess I'll be your donkey.".



In the last 6 or 7 years my H has quit several jobs and one graduate degree program and been fired from one job. Disregarding any emotional wear and tear this has had on me, practically the result has been that our 401k plan, college savings for the kids, equity in our house and credit line have all been fully maxed out and are only in a state of recovery due to the fact that my H and I are both currently making more money than we have in the past. During his periods of unemployment, the situation for me has been that I work, I continue to do the vast majority of housework AND I support his efforts to find new employment in the face of his negativity. Now, I understand that I shouldn't really gripe about this because whatever cr*p I put up with in the past was due to my own inability to set adequate boundaries. For instance, instead of being martyred about the housework, I could have said "Okay, you aren't working now so here's the list of stuff that I usually do that you can take over while you're at home.". Probably, the reason I didn't do this is because I do think this would have been sort of "male energy" sapping, but if I think that way then I am stuck between a rock and a hard place and I start flailing again.

Okay, about me being a smoke alarm. Let me tell you the story of what happened and you can judge. My H was home in bed sleeping and watching TV for two weeks too "exhausted" to work. I dealt with this by doing my best to go about my daily routine as usual, as I noted in a previous post I even made a point of doing some activities for myself that I consider "fun" and I was caring in my behavior towards my H. Around day 4 or 5 my H got out of bed and asked me if I would call his boss to tell him that my H was still sick. I calmly said that I thought he should do that himself. My H threw a fit and yelled at me. I remained calm. Later that day my H apologized and called his boss himself. Around day 7 or 8 my H's boss and I pretty much simultaneously insisted that my H ought to see a doctor. I accompanied him to the doctor and took care of some insurance hassles. Day 12, a Saturday, my H is wondering aloud whether he will feel well enough to go to work on Monday, at this point he has used up all his vacation time for the year. At this moment, my son enters the room and says to me "Have you stopped doing my laundry?". At this point I lose it; I start laughing and crying at the same time because although I have kept up with my usual work load, I am running behind on the laundry simply because the laundry room is right off our bedroom and my H has been in there sleeping all the time. My H seeing my reaction responds by saying "Okay, I'm going to work on Monday no matter how cr*ppy I feel.".

So, I ask you, is the problem that I am a smoke alarm that goes off too much or one that doesn't go off quickly enough or what? This is not a rhetorical question.



Maybe I'm reading this wrong but I feel like you're sort of accusing me of being a drama queen. I just don't think that's true. I am a romantic but I MUCH prefer Jane Austen to the Bronte sisters.




I believe that this is pretty much a good suggestion. However, I don't think you understand how difficult a job controlling my perspective is for me in this situation. Let me tell you about the last weird thing that happened this weekend. My H needed to borrow my car since his was in the shop. I had a lot of boxes full of books waiting to go to my warehouse in the car. My H started unloading the boxes saying he didn't want to drive around with all that cr*p in the car. He was very cranky and disrespectful as he did this, yelling at me that I shouldn't carry so much weight in my car and to get the dog out of his f*cking way etc (this is behavior that might have made me cry in the past).. I calmly but firmly said to him "Do not speak to me in that cranky manner. I made a rational, considered decision to buy an inexpensive car rather than a van even though I do need to do some hauling for my business. If the car breaks down early due to being overweighted, I will deal with the consequences.". My H just collapsed. It was like the little guy coming out from behind the Wizard of Oz display. This kind of freaked me out at first because I felt like I was being thrust into Mommy mode but then I was able to feel some empathy. I spontaneously said "So, when you act all cranky like that it's really just like you are crying.". He didn't disagree.

My point is that now that I am brave enough to demand respect in the relationship, I can no longer "see" my H's bullying behavior as masculine. My perspective has changed and it won't change back unless I become more dysfunctional and needy. If I am unable to see any sort of new placating type behavior as masculine either, well- that's just natural. At least I have the advantage of being self-aware about that sort of thing due to my time spent on this BB. So, here is my plan. I will stay where I am, continue to demand respect and patiently try to at least do no harm in my relationship.

Well, my H and I were married in a very liberal Unitarian ceremony. Basically, I promised to do my best to promote his personal growth. I intend to honor that commitment even if it means that I have to leave him. My way is not clear to me.

Mo:

A lot of times, when one person in a dysfunctional R gets better, the R can fall apart, simply because the 'glue' that held it all together is no longer there, regardless of the quality of the glue.

Your R is going to continue to feel strange to you simply because you HAVE made such enormous strides, and I think you hit the nail on the head, exactly, when you talked about not being in your comfort zone anymore. And, even better for you, you've changed enough now that even if you did go back to that comfort zone, it still isn't going to feel comfortable to you.

You've made great strides. Your H is now changing simply because you have. But you cannot predict his behavior or his responses anymore, simply because YOU are not the same person. See?

I understand this place very well. You will continue to go up and down, up and down. But I'd suggest you 'stablize' in your new MoJo skin befeore you make any radical decisions (which it sounds like you are). Your H is going up and down, up and down, too. You can see it all over your posts. Nothing about your R feels 'normal' or comfortable to you anymore... but that doesn't mean it is bad, or that you've reached the end of growth or the R. More than likely, you are just on the verge of it.

See how funky growth feels?

This is where the woman needs to stand as still as she can. Do what you can, as best as you are able. Your old habit would have been to pull the 'chicken little' response... but obviously, that is not feeling quite 'right' to you. But in absence of ever being in this new place you now find yourself, you aren't quite sure what to do.

What do you do when you get lost?

You sit down, assess the situation, and you stay exactly where you are until you can begin to think rationally again. You take stock in what supplies you do (or don't) have with you, you take stock in what you do and don't know about your surroundings, you try to find your bearings...

But you do NOT run pell mell off into the woods simply because something might look familiar.

You are doing fine, sweety. Really. Let things stablize a bit. Who knows how long this will take... but I guarantee you, if you give it some time, you will feel better, the terrain won't look so scary, and you will find your way back to thinking clearly.

Your fine.

Corri

You didn't answer my question, Mojo... Did you commit heart and soul to each other? I don't just mean you accidentally bought a ticket to the wrong destination and so you're sucking it up and going there anyway... or that you thought you were buying a ticket to a weekend in Chinatown and it turned out you were signing up for a 30-year tour in the Peace Corps in CHINA... and you're going to make the best of it.

Did you make a heartfelt personal commitment to the MAN, or did you just promise to take him on as a project? Or to make the best of the soup you found yourselves in?

His personal growth is not your job. Does staying in the R promote YOUR personal growth?

I highly recommend the book "Loving What Is" or the website http://www.thework.org although I expect that the first few times you try to apply the Byron Katie method to your situation, you will run screaming from the room in a flurry of "yes-but's." You'll fight it and say it doesn't apply to you, you'll argue with it, it will make you furious. (I say this because this was my reaction and the reaction of a good friend of mine.) Contrary to what it seems at first glance BK's method is not about putting up with crap and calling it cornflakes, it's about wiping the film off your lenses so you can see clearly what you're really IN... and when that happens, the decisions make themselves.

The method will also help you disentangle from him and his stuff. If you can get over the initial revulsion/head scratching/eyerolling that you feel when you listen to some of her interviews on the website, I think you'll find some relief there, freedom, and clarity.

please remember that I do use this BB as my personal therapy journal/ venting arena. In real life all that "flailing" that I exhibited on the BB just looked like me being somewhat distracted as I went about my daily routine


Yeah I totally understand, sometimes wonder if people here think Im this Loud, violent, aggressive person, because of the times I do post about me.

I just don't want him swearing at me.
remember this.

I can't be your fun guy so I guess I'll be your donkey.". Your H makes me laugh. Im always saying stuff like, 'what do I look like, Pepe the little mule'?
this is a good opportunity for you to use your intuition and femininity.

Disregarding any emotional wear and tear this has had on me,
No. No no no. The emotional wear and tear is not the part you disregard. You tell him the effect it has had on you emotionally, and that you can not take it anymore. Youve taken a lot of emotional wear and tear on this issue, for a long time and you just cant handle anymore.
Then you focus on what is. Things are getting better.

I understand that I shouldn't really gripe about this because whatever cr*p I put up with in the past was due to my own inability to set adequate boundaries

I disagree. you can mention it, and you can protect yourself with boundaries, the problem is if you hold it in you focus on that, instead of getting it out, and focusing on the positives that are occuring when you implement your boundary. I think the way a woman implements boundaries is very important. She will lose respect as the guy is acknowledging her boundaries, If she does it in a masculine fashion, (remember Chrissy?) the guy can either escalate further which is usually anger, violence, etc, or begin filling the feminine energy void. as soon as chrissys H started accepting her boundaries, she left. Not prior when he was behaving badly but still being 'more masculine'.


Ive been thinking alot about my 'do nothing' behavior, since you opened the possibility of it getting a pity reaction.
I really enjoy seeing women 'bloom' and embrace their femininity. It feels great assisting them with that. I get great satisfaction out of it or I wouldnt be doing it. In many ways its much more maligned then men being masculine. someone mentioned to me that I am drawn to women who havent found there femininity yet. I dont think thats exactly correct, cause I can see it in nearly all of them. I guess thats how I satisfy 'saving the princess'. Besides, Ill fall in love with ones who have it, which is too damn scary. There was this one, and the voice in my head said Run Forest Run. But when they start to find it, or become it, or act that way its just a reaction. As soon as I start my 'do nothing' (which doenst mean I act placating...thats just destructive, I expect a woman to be repulsed by it) I find out if they understand that acting like a woman has nothing to do with me. They have the ability to continue the behaviors that make them feel so happy and satisfied, when they are just reacting. But when they flail they (unconsciously I am sure) prove that they hold me responsible for their behavior.

I refuse to do that to myself, anymore.


my son enters the room and says to me "Have you stopped doing my laundry?".
Ok I am going to break another one of my rules. Your son is old enough to do his own laundry. I started when I was 13, cause my mom washed a red shirt with my tighty whiteys, that promptly became tighty pinkys. My second was, your H may have honestly needed rest and recuperation, but thats no reason to walk on eggshells.

My H seeing my reaction responds by saying "Okay, I'm going to work on Monday no matter how cr*ppy I feel.".
What do you think prompted him to say this?
Was he trying to get away from you,
or did he realize you were at the end of your rope. Use your emotional intuition to understand and empathize not personalize.

you're sort of accusing me of being a drama queen. I just don't think that's true Ok. I still think so, and from over here, I think its cute. If I were your H, I would be tired out by it. Weary. peace quiet-- shhhhhhh.


He was very cranky and disrespectful as he did this, yelling at me that I shouldn't carry so much weight in my car and to get the dog out of his f*cking way etc (this is behavior that might have made me cry in the past).. I calmly but firmly said to him "Do not speak to me in that cranky manner. I made a rational, considered decision to buy an inexpensive car rather than a van even though I do need to do some hauling for my business. If the car breaks down early due to being overweighted, I will deal with the consequences.".

just an observation, saying 'I will deal with the consequences' is a me/mine attitude not a we/ours attitude.

Look at this again. What was it you said you dont want? Him yelling at you, or him caring about your car/you/braking safety/transmission wear and tear/cash outflow/etc?

set your boundary for the right thing. focus on what it is that hurts you emotionally. And then let him know that, like a woman. If you can do that, you might be surprised by your H's ability to show you affection.

ex. Its nice that you care about my safety and the cars wear and tear, but when you yell at me it doesnt feel like you care. It hurts. Alot.

HP is going to read this and say... ohh thats too much. So Ill let her give a better example. Wheres UD? Shes good at that too.

Your man does not WANT to hurt you.


Show your emotions, dont let them control you. Its the same for both genders, but how its demomstrated and favorably received is not.

is the problem that I am a smoke alarm that goes off too much or one that doesn't go off quickly enough or what? The problem with a smoke alarm is never that it doesnt go off quickly enough... at least untill the battery is dead. You need to go off for the right reason, so you get listened too, and taken seriously.

You cant be radically honest, untill you know what you need.

Mo:



Stop analyzing and enjoy the warm fuzzy. He's caring for you in an odd way, but hey, he's finding his way, too.



He's looking for a feminine smile of encouragement that he's doing his 'man' thing in a way that might be pleasing to you. You could say "Chimps are fun, but what a lovely, cute donkey you are... and donkeys are so much fun, in their own, loving cute way." Or something bit of flirty light humor type talk that gives him the tiny boost he'd like to have from you (which, btw, costs you nothing, but does worlds of good for him).



Change your perspective. I don't know that he is trying to 'bully' you so much as he is testing the boundaries, and figuring out how to now act in face of them.

The whole scene where you started to laugh/cry after your son's comment about the laundry, and him saying, 'fine, I'll go to work on Monday,' ... Mo... believe it or not, you inspired him. He picked up his 'man reins' again. He may not have made the move in a stellar fashion, could have done it in a more sauve, sophisticated 'all male' kind of way... but you need to see, and be patient with, the fact that he IS climbing down out of his tower and spending more time out in the sunshine with you. The more comfortable HE gets with it, the less clumsy he'll become with picking back up on his place as the man in the family.

Give him some time. Encourage him. Stick to your boundaries, be firm, but also be gentle. Accept his attempts at change with a bit more empathy (I know this is hard... for ALL of this is new, to both of you). In absence of any other reaction, or when in doubt, just smile and laugh. Let your light shine through.

Corri