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AMD, Christy, and Amy - thanks for your good wishes. We had a lot of fun. It wasn't always easy being alone w/ two kids, but the weather was really nice and the hotel was great. We were able to walk to all the sites, and we had a good time.

COG -I'm sorry you feel that way. I think my email was totally appropriate. Yes, I was mad, but I wasn't going to apologize for not rushing back to be here. I think that he did make plans--any opportunity to go out drinking--but he really should have told me. You might think it's petty, he might think so...I don't care. I'm tired of being the one who, for years, has been walked all over. He needs clear boundaries, and if it causes a rift, well, at this point, I really don't give a darn. As for ow, I don't know. But I do know that he didn't want me to pick up the DVD player even before this whole incident.

That said, this was his reply:

Hi Nicola,

No problem, I can pick them up at 5 on Sunday. No problem for the Thursdays, I am good to 9:30. I just made a quick call based on your 8pm arrival estimate at the last minute to leave at 9/9:15. [So you called me at 8:30 because..?]

Sorry about the video [he forgot to drop it off, as I expected, which is why I wanted to pick it up], but it is useless in the car for both, as they have a hard time both watching it at the same time and fights break out. It is really good for when S5 wants to watch scooby doo and D10 and I want to watch something else at home.

Have fun!

H



That's a nice thought, but I seriously doubt it. He has given me no indication whatsover that he doesn't want to lose me. If anything, it may be a case of ownership, but not because he loves me as a wife.


I'm not looking for another R right now, but it is nice to know that the possibilities are out there. There are nice, normal, interesting men who are emotionally healthy--or at least seem to be!

i"m actually not feeling too sad or negative, but I do feel that the reality is that H doesn't want to be with me and has not changed to the point that I want to be with him. I also don't know if he will ever change. He just told me a couple of weeks ago that he's still seeing the T, but really just to "bounce ideas off him," as he supposedly knows exactly what he's doing. Well, good luck to him!

Thanks for stopping by!

Nicola

Hi Nicola

I am so glad you and the kids had a good time. Your kids will have the memories of this weekend forever and it will be something that your H will not be able to share with them. Too bad. He will realize it when they are too old to want to spend a winter carnival weekend with him. It reminds me of the Cat Stevens song, Cats in the Cradle that used to make me cry every time I heard it. My XH would never be there for our boys when they were growing up. I always swore that I would always be there for them and I have. I never want to get old and have any regrets on having missed out on any moments in their lives.

I didn't see anything wrong with your email. COG felt that the email would put your H on the defensive, well I felt like your H put you on the defensive. I have to agree with you that if he had made plans then he should have told you. His priority should have been his kids regardless what time you came home. Even if he was feeling insecure about you having a good time, it doesn't make it right for him to be in control of your time. If he was concerned about YOU not being home because you indicated that you would be home by a certain time, then I can understand his reason for calling.

The fact that he had made plans, it sounds to me like he made plans while he was at your place since he didn't know what time you were planning to be home. It sounds to me like he is still acting like a teenager; selfish and with no responsibility or concern for anyone else. Sorry COG but sometimes I think the more we "baby" them, the more we feed into their selfishness. Your H likes to think that he knows exactly what he is doing because right NOW this is the life he wants. Nicola, I have heard it too many times from friends of mine (including my H) who had left their Hs saying that they knew exactly what they were doing. As I've already posted on my thread my friends have all come to the realization that they may have made the biggest mistake. My H being the last one of the 4 to leave his spouse isn't quite there yet. There does come a time for everyone when they truly reflect on the mistakes they have made but we just don't know when that will be. Unfortunately, only a few actually get to fix what they broke.

You sound so strong and I admire you for having to put up with a 41 year old teenager and doing it with self control and poise. I'm glad you had a great time on your night out and making new friends is just what you need. Sometimes our WAHs truly need to be hit with a 2 x 4.

I am glad you had a good time Nicola. Sometimes it is hard to do things like this by ourselves with the kiddos. But I always feel empowered and happy afterwards. I am spending good quality time with my kids and opening them up to different experiences and I don't need my h to do it.

Love ya have a great week!
Christy

Hi Nicola,

For what it's worth, I agree with COG. I think your e-mail was harsh, snippy and a bit defensive. But it all depends on your desired outcome. If you truly don't care whether the door is open for your H to return someday, then do whatever you feel like doing. You will hear plenty of justification for it, because after all, they are Jerks with a capital J while in MLC. But here's the thing Nicola. Your H is in therapy. And I believe he is trying to be nice. His tone seems kind, not demanding. I know you are mad, dissapointed, impatient, whatever. But you came on to these boards because you wanted to save your M, right? So just for a minute, think the best of your H. What if he is confused, afraid he has screwed up so badly he will lose everything he cares about. What if he is acting like he knows what he wants just to save face, because you already look happy and like you have moved on? Just for the possibility that H MIGHT be on the road to recovery, I would encourage you to take your anger here and elsewhere, and try to listen to H each time as if it is the first time. Try to stay in the now. Listen to his words, his tone. And think, if he was a 12 year old best friend of my son, how would I respond? I believe he is trying, Nicola. Just for a little longer, perhaps you can give him the benefit of the doubt? You can always date all those cute men later, if your H is truly lost. But you know, the LBS usually moves on in impatience about a year before the WAS has an epiphany. Patience might save the day here, for your M and your kids.... Just my two cents. Thanks for listening.

I've not come across that statistic before PL. Currently I'm feeling a bit like Nicola (that and the fact that I think it might take me findng someone else to make H see what he has truly lost) so that means I may have at least another year to wait. Not sure I can hold out that long but I'm sure going to try.

Thank you ISLH, Christy, PL and Alison for stopping by.

I'm going to comment on a few things, particularly what PL wrote. I'm not trying to start an argument, but I want to give my POV and then if anyone has more to say, I am really very happy to hear it.

I agree with ISLH that sometimes we baby the WAS. In my case, I have been affirming and validating and biting my tongue for a year and a half. Furthermore, I was doing a lot of tongue-biting for a good four years before that. Night after night, several times a week, I would be looking out the window in the middle of the night to see if the car was there b/c H would come home far later than he said, then sleep on the sofa-bed. He was NEVER on time, and I mean NEVER. He told me I "had" to give him "an hour's leeway"! When I asked him if he told clients that, he said, "Of course not! That's important." Thanks.

I had to drop out of a yoga class b/c H was never home on time for me to go. My kids and I missed activities waiting for H to turn up. Sometimes I got angry, but then I got tired of being angry, and became silent. Just like Michele says, beware if your W STOPS nagging--she's given up.

The issue of the DVD is another thing that is typcial--I cannot count on H and have not been able to for many years. He also forgot to bring me my car/house keys, which he'd taken by mistake a week earlier. How much more am I supposed to put up with? How understanding am I supposed to be? He has shown no sign of wanting to be with me, or of having any hope or desire for our M.


You're right. What's interesting about that is that if I write a nice, friendly email, I get a one-word reply like "ok" or "fine." If I get PO'd, I'll get something kind and thoughtful. What incentive do I have to be nice? None. When I am, I get treated disrespectfully. When I saw H last night, we were friendly at first, and then he decided to sit down and read the newspaper in my home while I cleaned up the dishes, which he and the kids had dirtied eating a dinner that I made for them. Not even a thank you for dinner. He acts much more pleasant when I tell him I don't have enough food for him!


I am happy and I have moved on. He's lagging way behind and seeing him just brings me down b/c he is so hard to be with. He is not someone I want to spend time with right now. I don't know if he ever will be. The only reason I can see us even getting back together at all is because of the kids, and I don't really think that's good enough.

I am also very suspicious of his motivations. I think he is being friendly so that I don't screw him over in a D. I might be wrong, but he has proven himself untrustworthy time after time. He actually took almost his whole bonus out of the checking acccount a couple of weeks ago ($5,000) w/o telling me. When I asked, he said it's to buy a car, even though we have other debt that needs to be paid off. He didn't say a word to me about it till I asked him. So far, it seems he's not made any moves to look for a car. Is it really for a L? I just don't know.


PL, I so wish I could really believe this. All I believe right now is that the only thing he's been honest about is the fact that he's no good for me.

Again, this is my POV, and I'm very happy to hear other opinions and thoughts.

Love to all,
Nicola

Just a clarification:

When I say I've moved on, I don't mean I've totally closed the door, but rather that I am going ahead w/ my life and closing the door on my old M. If we get back together, it's going to have to be because we want to be together NOW, not because of the past.

I completely understand where you ar at..you sound good

Nicola,

I am so confused. When I look at my kids, I feel for them that their Dad is not around and I am dreadfully lonely for male companionship but with H the person that he is now … I do not think that I could muster the strength to pretend. As I have said in other threads, he has changed but not grown. All that he is doing is showing himself for whom he is at this stage. A self centered, inwardly focused juvenile. He gets to play the hero in the face of the kids and screw me over every chance that he gets. It seems that this may be the case with your H. Can you think back to how long he has been in replay? That may give you some clue as to whether or not he is a “lifer” or can emerge within a time frame that you can bear.

Lately, I have been thinking hard about my sitch … What would be my reason for wanting this person, especially after the way that he has been treating me ? When I am nice to H, he takes advantage as well. When I am nasty, he starts doing things to get back in favor. Sick,huh? I too am tired of this game.


Your H must have a brother, last year he took his bonus (one of the highest payouts at his firm) and bought a motorcycle. Never offered one thin dime, not one red cent for me or the children. I have recently seen him dressed to the nines. MIL states that he is in partnership with someone for a small business –never said a word and I actually thought of not listing it in the CS hearings. CS will be in effect so we shall see how this all pans out very soon. I don’t believe that my H wants to return either although I had a strangely vivid dream just this morning that he had returned and I have NEVER had one of those.

If you H is anything like mine and after reading what you wrote, I am with you. He is no good for you, especially in his current state. But, only you really know that for sure or not.