Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy (still) W wants to hide D from my family ?

Hi all,

Well, I saw the counselor today, with some results. He was good on the structure-your-thoughts and encouragement side, but low on the expertise, I thought. What it came down to was a presentation of the problem, him asking me “what would I do” or “what would your W think if” or “what would your friends think would help” type of questions, essentially taking my asnwers and ideas, reformulating them, and then presenting them as solutions.

Just as in the last DB session I had in the States, he asked “how would you know if you were on a good path, what signs or actions from your wife... ” .

I was somewhat frustrated by this seemingly low-on-insight, schematic approach,, but we did come up with a plan:

O I find and attend an assertiveness training class or a how to fight in marriage course (he didn’t know where to go for these; didn’t’ even know the Swedish word for assertiveness, which I explained to him)
O I go to dance lessons (always wanted to try the Lindy hop, which looks like fun)
O I organize the various NIMBY “you don’t build your new housing here” groups in our town, so bringing new people into our lives, letting me try something I think is worthwhile (and something my W can agree with). We get to protest in the town square American style - sounds like fun.
O try to set limits, maybe by telling W – by email ? – of what a divorce would be like in my book (no vacations together, no having her in the garden, probably having to sell the house, etc.), this not as an ultimatum, but more as a reality check. Also that I would consider moving to Boston then, and how would we handle the kids?

That was the positive measures. On the negative side:

O in mid-summer I apply for a divorce, this on a 6 month timer, without telling my W. She then has 6 months before the timer runs out, the D is a fact (or not), and I have clarity – yes or no - for a 50th birthday present. You can do this one-sided application here in Sweden, not to trick the other person, but just to get things rolling.
O I prepare for a D in any case, should it come to pass, with information, plans, etc.

The ‘submarine’ nature of the D application should leave the air clean till Christmas, not bringing negative energy into the equatin.

Anyway, a last ditch, positive trying to change on my part, but prepared for the worst.

Lots to do now!

The ice is still not snowy and wonderfully smooth – may be able to skate in a week on it – some pink on the clouds as the sun goes down -

Best –

Luke

Hi Luke, I think it is extremely helpful just to have a plan! It certainly increases the PMA when you have a direction. Now, Solution Focused counselling is based on the principles that the client knows what he/she needs to do but needs help in processing and structuring their thoughts. It can be a real paradigm shift because we tend to go for counselling hoping someone will give us pearls of wisdom and show us the way. SF doesn't work that way. the belief is that the counsellor should take a non-expert position and help the client, who is an expert on his/her life, develop their thoughts and ideas. They will ask questions that take the client away from the problem and more towards solution e.g. is there a time when that problem did not happen, what was happening then? The model most of us are used to is based on examining the problem for the answer, not the SF approach.
Anyway, enough of the lecture I'm glad you have a plan in place. I hope it helps in repairing your M but it will make you a fuller, happier person no matter which way this goes. Take care.

LL

Luke, most therapists will often ask general questions that
will require thought processes. It's done, so that you come to the solution through your own self-realization.
You will find that most people can be told a solution to a
problem, however, will not take heed and follow it. If they come to grips with a solution in their own mind, through the guidance of a therapist, they tend to react
more positively.

Remember one thing, they can get to know you, but may never
see a spouse - a very hard area to judge with correct
solutions. They are hearing responses from a third party
of which is usually distorted.

You have several avenues to try. There are great books on
the market addressing how to fight fairly with results.

You need to think what would make it fair for you to try
and resolve the issues. Without losing your dignity and
self respect, what would be the best solution for you?

Obviously her way is not even considered, since it would
only cause you to end up divorced. If she doesn't bother
to care for your feelings due to her own fears...it may be
time to separate for a duration, which, if you feel that
is something to share with your parents - then do so.

Post with how you feel that her issues will be resolved.

Hola 1210,

Nice to hear from you. Here, per your request, are my thoughts:

How her issues will be resolved:

O Surprising her with a stronger me that she looks up to. I have put together a letter in Swedish to assemble a “don’t destroy our town with new building” movement, in which I invite people to a meeting at our house in early March. It sounds fun to use American protest and propaganda methods in a Swedish environment, something people here are not used to.
O Her getting a job (she is working on this, and I encourage it). She is a very proud person and not having a job, with a regular income, bothers her. She was irritated when I told her that I would be offered a job in Germany next week.
O me setting boundaries for her. This is probably difficult to do now, but one way might be to state what a D would really be like (no being in the garden, no more trips together, etc.)
O me going out, both for GAL, and for her impression of my being too introverted. I’ve been wanting to learn the Lindy hop for a while. This would be a fun assertion of independence. It appears that there are dance events every Sunday in the next town, so I hope to pop over this weekend for a look.
o a satisfying roll in the hay would help also

In summary, an extroverted man to be proud of, with fresh inputs for her, a job with income, sex, adventure.


Signs that things are improving:

Less tension in the air
Deliberate touching, even if only briefly, but this is a biggie.
Opening up in conversation
Signing off with love
Not looking for an apartment
Getting criticized, both positively and negatively


She invited me to be with her in the film club yesterday and we went out to a movie last night, the kids being old enough to babysit each other. We met people we knew there, to whose questions I had to respond, and you could tell that she was evaluating what sort of impression I was making, was I acceptable to present... It went okay by my book – hope she thought the same.

I will be gone for three weeks starting Monday, returning at the beginning of the kids’ school vacation week. Will be interesting to see what communication happens during that time.

(What bothered me about the counseling was that there was nothing new added, it just being an orderly straightening and regurgitation of my own ideas. I had hoped that the information of what sort of Jung types W and I are might lead to insights, or that he could suggest something new. So, while the C was fine, I think the next session will be with a more expert (like you and the other folks here are!) counselor.)

Must finish the 'stop building in our town' letter now - W is just walking the kids to school -

* * *

It snowed last night, and the lake is covered in a smooth white now. The view into the distance is muted, softened. A bunch of crows is flying around, circling down to our compost pile for scraps, circling up again when a schnauzer, with tail up high, gingerly walks nearby, on the icy sidewalk.

Best -

Luke

Luke, lots of good thinking going on there. I like the Lindy idea! I would just advise you not to spend too much time thinking about "how her issues will be resolved". You can't know nor can you control what she does so it's kind of a cheeseless tunnel. You really don't even know what her issues are, you do know what you percieve them to be. Go with what YOU can control, yourself and stay with that.

Hola Lucas

Okay...your list contain five areas that you want to focus
on. Number five will mostly likely happen when all is well
or improving towards positive feelings.

First, if you want to lead a group for the community to stop new buildings going up...that's fine - it shows that
you are passionate about an issue - very assertive.

Putting up boundaries, are a little much right now...as they will build up more resentment to the marriage. IMHO,
I still feel her issues surround her career or lack of the
consistency in the work field. If she is a free-lance
graphic artist, that is tough. You could, however, keep
your eyes and ears open through networking, to help her
find a company that has a graphic department - such as an
airline, hotel chain, travel agency, etc. I think that she
equates her worthiness based on her career - which is not
unusual, to say the least - but it also raises her self-
esteem by feeling needed.

With you going out and doing inerests that will occupy your
free time will be advantageous to you and your marriage.
It will show her that life goes on and it can include her
or not...her choice. This will also take your mind off of
the day to day drudgery of analyzing her moods.

Seeing some positives from her could possibly indicate that
she is thinking about the conversation that you two had
just recently. It's not always a good idea to bring out an
affair face to face, because it can backfire...however, in
your particular case, it might have been effective. She
may meet up with the OM while you are gone, but, you cannot
stop it without forcing a negative result.

Stay positive and get involved with projects but look for
any signs be it good or bad, from her. In my perspective,
her issues deal with her wanting to be more assertive in
her persona and that she is transcending this onto you in
order to deal with it.

Remember, unless you have dramatically changed your self,
then, when she married you, there was never a problem with
you not being assertive. If you would change into the one
person she wants you to be - there would be something else
that she would find wrong with you.

Have a safe and productive trip, don't worry about anything
on the homefront. If you normally call or text her while
away, continue to do so...but don't discuss the marriage
relationship over the airwaves.

Talk to you soon Luke.

Ola 1210,

Sorry for the long silence. A combination of frequent travel, jet lag and a cold had me knocked out.

Thanks for your long post and your thoughts. Yes, I also think that lack of work had gotten to my (proud) W. Luckily she now has received a contract for a major chunk of work, though again just by herself. They want to pay her three times what she bid at, so that is even better. With the sudden new workload, she has stopped talking about going to Germany (and OM) - maybe that is no longer so important to her...

She didnt' want to tell me how much the contract was for, which bugged me a bit (I tell her pretty much everything financial), but I don't think the change in situation is a bad thing.

Mind you, she said a while ago that she wanted to 1) finish renovating the house, 2) get a job, and 3) get out, and this is one of those three... If she actually does move out, that will be another nail in my coffin, and I suppose it would be appropriate to file for D (the Swedish 6 month waiting period would still give us time to fix/try out things).

She is now actively planning a vacation visiting my parents this summer. It will be interesting to see if she moves out before then and what we will do - I don't want to lie to anyone.

Had lunch a few days ago with my (French) manager and a good, intimate conversation - he also has similar relationship problems with his wife. We trust each other, plus it is unlikely that he will meet my W, so I don't think there was any danger in sharing. Nice to talk with a friend.

W is talking about chaining herself to a tree to stop building in town; we seem to be on the same wavelength. Now I need to send out the 'let's form an anti-building alliance' letter to the various parties.

My job situation is shifting now also. At my current job they want me to work 50% for another division, something I am not sure I will like. I got offered a job last week, when I was in Germany, and then this week again, with my Dad, when I was in Boston. It seems like a job change of some sort, small or maybe larger, is coming. Not sure how this will affect our M.

Yes, she does do that transference stuff, putting some other problem onto me at times, often under stress. Her work problems could be spilling over onto me, yes... She has no problem with assertion (at all!), but maybe hasn't be receiving the validation (professionally, emotionally, physically) she needs. Beauty and strength are very important to her, in herself and others.

The marathon training is going well. I took a fitness test this morning and got rated good for my age group, just short of the very good category. It is nice to have a project again. Tomorrow is a 10-12 mile run!

Best news of the day is that her last email signed off with 'love' -

A brighter day to you also -

Best, from a smoggy California -

Luke