I know your question is directed at somebody else, but I've also made that transition. Previously, I asked many that same question and I'm sure many others would like a one sentence answer for it. Unfortunately, there is no universal answer to it. I struggled with it for a long time. Some on here have done it in months, some in years. Some say the length of time you stand is an indication of your love and character, but I never really bought into that cookie cutter observation because each situation is so unique.
Although the answer is probably different for each, I would venture to say 90% of them would tell you that it was never a feeling of hopelessness that drove them to that decision so don't assume that is a obvious reason or even should be. "Hopelessness" is such a self defeating emotion, I don't even think it's a proper word to use in context to our situations. There are a lot of personal issues you will face yourself that need to be resolved before your ready. It's really important to learn something about yourself from this experience. It's part healing and part learning that eventually gets you to the point of "moving on", not hopelessness. You come out a stronger and wiser person in the end and I don't consider that the result of "hopelessness".
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
Barb I thought I had gone back in time when I saw that you had a thread in the MLC forum. Good Lord it has been many moons ago since we have posted on this side of the board. It use to be where we were every waking moment. So you wonder if Chuckie is having an awakening? Who knows sweetie, but I wouldn't put my money on it happening. Anything is possible in this world. My question is why do you wonder? Is it for closure, an apology for what he has done, to know that he has come to the end of his MLC saga. Girl just live your life, and don't give him a second thought. I was with my X-H and his wife for 2 whole days this past week. It was the most valuable experience I will ever endure in my life. As I observed this man, I realized he is not a person I could ever put my trust, love, and dreams toward. He is still an alien. Oh yes the OW (now wife) feeds his insecurities. They are such sad people. But they are happy, remember that is why the MLC chooses to leave us , or so they say. My advice to you sweetie, is don't look back. There is nothing left behind from the MLCers, but lies, cheating, and broken dreams. Move forward with your life, there is so much living to be done. Take Care God Bless
Thanks for reading deeper and realizing that I was not mentioning ANY interest in a new marriage or love R with my ex. I have absolutely no feelings in that regard. Still, it is desirable not to have an enemy (mine is NASTY despite my best efforts) and to not spoil events for my children.
What triggered my decision to stop trying to save my M??? Good question. It actually came in stages though a few incidents propelled me faster. I remember around the one year mark he came to celebrate Ashley's birthday. She was turning 14. Right after opening the gifts (I was trying to be friendly and keep him involved), he went into a business spiel. I started to cry. (It wasn't a huge thing that he did, just the realization that he was "out there"). He then turned it into an attack again. Right in front of the kids he continued to berate me for having feelings. Kids wandered off as they had often done in the past and he kept on. I was just mystified at how horrible he was. I had done nothing but cry a little bit at his coldness. My gardener was outside fixing the deck that H had built. H went out and told him he didn't like what he was doing. (H had not made any attempt to fix anything since he had left but he LOVED to take shots at us for anything that wasn't perfect). He also continued to yell at me that day and I continued to cry. I think it was one of my first realizations that I was NEVER going to get through to this man. Later, the gardener came to me (after H had left) to ask me if I was ok. He had seen and heard much. I think that having an outsider witness some of it and mention it to me (most people like to look the other way), brought the reality to me that THIS IS NOT OK!!!
There were more triggers over the next little while. Most of it was the way he was cold and distant. Our mediations were horrible. He continued to be cold and nasty throughout despite the fact I was crying. The lawyers (both sides) were NOT impressed. Then one day, soon after mediation had finished (I was already dating Josh at that point), H phoned 3 or 4 times one day. I finally asked him what I had wanted to ask all along. "How can you do this to me? Why did you stop loving me". He fliply answered
"Well Barb, you were never really there for me".
Those were the words. That was what did it. He was so flip. So cool. He had no recollection of what had really gone on in our M. This man had attempted suicide more than once. I had saved his life. (now I question WHY - life would have been so much easier if I had just let him do it)> AWFUL??? Well, it is hard NOT to feel that way. I do remind myself that if he had killed himself I would never have had Ashley. She was our "let's stay together" promise to each other. He swore he would never leave me if we agreed to have one more child. He had done one stupid thing after another through the years and I had always bailed him out. Always been there for him. Always gave him "One More Chance". Through counselling and car accidents, and drinking and blackouts, arrests - you name it. I was always there for him. But he chooses to remember it differently. That's when I knew. I wished I'd bailed sooner.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to release some things I have wanted to say for a long time. I don't think we can just turn the corner one day and say "I'm done". I think it is a process. But I truly can say now "I'm done".
Barb I also think after reading your post that you were able to walk away without any regrets.
You tried your best and can never say "if only" I had tried harder.
Although I am definately not an advocate for Divorce, I still believe that sometimes it has to happen because there are people who will never look at themselves or the damage they cause to others.
They become toxic to us and will destroy us if we do not get away from the poison.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
I know this was directed at BBD but I would like to chime in too
I don't think there is a magic time that the ansswer is clear to you. I think it is different for every person but, for me, and quite a few friends in the same situation, it wasn't a huge dramatic event that solidified our decision to D...rather it was something pretty inconsequential. It's just about where your line is...you'll know once it's been crossed
I had attended a DB party about 11 months after Ex left me. I went to the party with the intention of picking everyone's brains (there were over 40 DBers there, all from the MLC forum) so that I could be the one who did it. I would save my marriage. Of that, I was certain. So many on the bb would talk about the MLC timeline and "when" my H would return. Not "if", but "when". That is one reason I have posted on here from time to time that THERE ARE NO CERTAINTIES. I think it was because I believed with certainty that he would return. The stats are much much different and so I was told at the party. When someone suggested he MIGHT NOT return, I fell apart. It was my first realization that there were no guarantees. Yes, I had read that but I was sure mine would be the one. I know I was being quite naive but without faith - I wouldn't be able to do it anyway. I just think that everyone should realize that they COULD save their M, but it is not certain.
So, the party, just prior to the birthday party/gardener incident also propelled me forward. Of the 40 or so people there - 1 had saved her M. But he had never left. Just had the affair. That spoke volumes to me.
Again, I am not trying to take away anyone's hope. Just trying to show the facts.
Agreed. I think it is a cumulative thing. And then you know. It is interesting to read how everyone feels about this. I know of many who have been at it for 5 years plus and still standing. Others who stopped 4 months into it. Again, it is a very personal decision and not something that anyone can be judged for. Each of us knows our own line as you say and our own heart.
I think I'm somewhere in the same boat as you are, at least this what I think I'm reading.
I don't ever want back in a relationship with xh, BUT, I would like the energies more cordial when and if we are at a family or school function. After all, there is a history, okay, maybe there are two histories, one I remember and the one he remembers.... BUT, I do recognize the pain my children feel when they see, he and I can't make peace or enjoy the situation (what ever it is) because he or I have our hackles up, which raises the stress level for everyone who is present, preventing anyone from enjoying the moment. Yes, I agree, it would be nice to get along, but it seems to me (at this time) it's not going to be possible. I'm not saying it is or isn't for you, for I'll be watching (and taking notes) to see how you do it, when and if you do find a way.
I do understand wanting the closure too. No, the divorce didn't bring on any sort of closure, in fact, it has seemed to make things worse for me. Not on an emotional level as much as a control level. I think a part of wanting this final closure, (for me) is a desire to hear "I'm sorry" or "I know I hurt you" or even, "you've done well all things considered" etc, however, when I step back from what I think I want to hear, I do see that I'm asking xh to say I was right all along.
I realize this is me and not you talking here. But when I started to think what would bring me closure, I realized I wanted an apology for all the cr@p I've put up with. In order to get the apology, xh would have to admit he was wrong, or that I may have been right. That ain't gonna happen here. Also, I've come to a time when I see more "gray" (than ever before) than black and white... Right and wrong, black and white, North and South, two opposite poles with a lot of gray in the middle. What I am trying to accept for myself, that maybe there is no right or wrong, but just "what is." It is what it is, and I can't change it, no matter how hard I try, wish or pray. Maybe I'll learn a way to accept what is.
Unfortunately, these thoughts haven't brought me any closer to a closure, but it has given me a few things to giggle about. Oh, I still yearn for that closure, but I believe it is something I will have to find within myself, just like our own happiness, our own fulfillment, our own joy.
Just my thoughts mind you, maybe in time I'll prove myself wrong.... it won't be the first time.
Barb, if anything, understand, you are not alone with your feelings, for I do think I understand where you are with all of this.
Take care of you, God Bless
Love,
Laughing
Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you.........
Barb, I do understand what you are trying to do--have a civil type of relationship w/xh. Civil was the word I was thinking about last night and it just didn't come to mind.
Nothing says that you ever have to open the door again for a reconcilation. That's your decision and I respect that. You were pretty much beaten up just as I was in those early days and boy the damage was quite bad. So, I can understand where you are coming from.
Barb, I truly believe you will figure this out and know how to be "civil" w/him. No one says you have to be best buds after all of this time. Just think, you both have children together and that means there will be family affairs that you both can't bow out of because the other is attending and that's why it's so important to at least talk to each other a bit.
You'll figure it all out. You're a smart cookie.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
